Asia Blog: China, Japan, Korea, Vietnam

Chinese Olympic Gymnasts Underage?

Posted in China, Olympics by Elliott Back on July 27th, 2008.

An article in the New York Times, Records Say Chinese Gymnasts May Be Under Age , indicates that some of the Chinese gymnasts, namely He Kexin, participating in the Olympic games may be younger than the 16 years old that is the official limit:

Chinese officials responded immediately, providing The New York Times with copies of passports indicating that both athletes in question — He Kexin, a gold-medal favorite in the uneven parallel bars, and Jiang Yuyuan — are 16, the minimum age for Olympic eligibility since 1997.

Their allegations are backed up by stories in the Chinese news, like Uneven-bars queen the new star in town from China Daily May 23, 2008:

Olympic gymnastics title contenders suddenly have one more thing to worry about other than the eight gold medals China claimed at the Tianjin World Cup last week. Her name is He Kexin.

The 14-year-old newcomer to the national team, who was recruited last year, has raised a lot of eyebrows recently after she broke two world records on the uneven bars in as many months. She will be just one more weapon on an already star-studded Chinese Olympic squad.

he-kexin.jpg

The gymnast He Kexin is definitely young looking–as evidenced by the above photo–but what advantage does a gymnast gain from being younger? I can only imagine that a few years of age would give her greater skill, and make her more formidable, not the other way around. The New York Times should seriously consider reviewing their policy of demonizing China before the 2008 Summer Olympic Games.

Update

According to Stryde Hax, He Kexin is listed on official Beijing Municipal Sports Bureau pages (one, two) as being just 14 years old:

618,”何可欣”,”女”,”1994.1.1″,”湖北”
1040,”何可欣 “,”女”,”1994-1-1″,,,”武汉市”,”六城会交流”

he-kexin.png

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320 Responses to “Chinese Olympic Gymnasts Underage?”

  1. Jon says:

    Are you kidding?? Your criticizing the NY Times for accurate reporting of conflicting information about the ages of the gymnasts? What difference does a few years make?
    How about playing by the rules? It is not NY Times fault that China is falsifying ages, AGAIN, because they want to be super successful on their home turf. This will not be the first time they have done this. Remember the Chinese gymnast, Yuan something, from the 2000 Olympics was underage and admitted to this after the games. So now we have a history of cheating from China so I guess we shouldn’t be surprised. It is pathetic they would cheat to make themselves look better. They deserve nothing but misery at these Olympics because they have done nothing but pimp these games out to try to raise their place in the world thereby eliminating the true spirit of the games. Screw the Chinese!

    • Chinese-person-in-America says:

      Please…Watch how you say things. I feel SO offended.

      “They deserve nothing but misery at these Olympics because they have done nothing but pimp these games out to try to raise their place in the world thereby eliminating the true spirit of the games.”

      They’ve done nothing? They practice, practice and practice everyday and you call that NOTHING?

      The last sentence “Screw the Chinese!” You know that’s racist, right?
      This doesn’t make America any better why making remarks like this.

  2. karma says:

    A few years makes all the difference in the world. If not for the minimum age limits, probably most of the rosters for most of the world and Olympic competitions in gymnastics would have been different. It’s commonly the case that the top junior gymnasts are better than some or even all of the top senior gymnasts. Therefore the team that gets sent to the worlds or Olympics are not necessarily the country’s best gymnasts: in most cases, it isn’t. This unfairly disadvantages every team that is playing by the rules. China has 4 times the population of the US, 40 times that of Romania, and 50 times that of Australia and they are the ones who have to cheat to put together a six person team? This isn’t just a slap in the face to every team out there that isn’t cheating, it’s a slap in the face to every gymnast who was left off a team because of their age, especially to the ones who were stars at ages 12 to 15 and then got injured or burned out and never got their shot: Sabina Cojocar, Vanessa Atler, Kristal Uzelac, Jennie Thompson to name just a few of the hundreds.

  3. jd says:

    Expect anything less from an authoritarian government? They are trying way too hard to show the world how great China is. The recent ad campaign encouraging the public to shy away from certain topics as well as the ridiculous amount of money to try to face lift their country. Now I got nothing against China but seriously the amount of money spent on this is just over the top.

    http://www.latimes.com/news/nationworld/world/la-fg-makeover21-2008jul21,0,967112.story

    I love the snippet where the government paid to get rid of their hobos.

  4. hmmmm says:

    In general, asians, especially Chinese are shorter and lighter and smaller at an earlier age than Americans, and I mean you can look in the schools in California/New York etc. Asians generally are inches shorter than any other race. Plus, it’s better to be shorter in gymnastics, so the Chinese obviously picked the smallest in size of their team for the Olympics

    Yea duh, CHinese are trying to impress. And you know why? well it’s all because of all these ppl saying “CHina is just this authoritarian country who should be screwed” “The CHinese just cheat” They’re not trying to portray themselves as this super great nation, they’re just merely trying to erase the things that have made them the underdog, and have adulterated their culture. And this is their chance. I mean think about what the ppl would say if the opening ceremony was just a piece of ****?

    You always have ppl criticizing that CHina hasn’t done enough, then ppl criticizing CHina did too much. I think the most important thing is for ppl to understand China, cuz China is improving. I mean 50 years ago, they were like in what, the cultural revolution?

  5. Joel Springle says:

    Younger = smaller = faster rotation, less required strength to achieve needed torque, etc… Younger is an advantage because of physics.

  6. Barry says:

    I just saw the prelims and only 2 of the Chinese girls looked 16 or over to me. One of them, and not the one above, looked like she was 12. You can tell the onset of puberty with the spread of the hips and those girls had no hip spread whatsoever. I think some sort of bone analysis could determine for sure and should be used just like testing for dope.

  7. chink_killer says:

    these chinks are freaken cheating
    some of their gymnasts look like they are under 10

  8. Shannon says:

    Its normal for asian women to look young. Why would this time be any different. Besides, the olympics is about a country sending their best to compete…who cares if they are under 16?

  9. Anonymous says:

    Why should we care? Because it gives them an unfair advantage, other countries who play by the rules have fewer gymnists to choose from and are thus at a disadvantage when facing a country who took no note of those rules when selecting their team.

    I agree the age restrictions are absurd, but the answer is lifting those restrictions, not cheating. If the restrictions were lifted then everyone would be on an even playing field….. If you overlooked china’s massive government sponsored gymnastics program that recruits young girls and holds them in a state of virtual slavery while they are made to work themselves to the bone in the name of “winning honour for the motherland.”

  10. vl says:

    although the chinese gymnasts do look young, some may argue even 10 or 12, there is no real/complete proof that they are. asian women usually look a lot younger than they are and it’s just unfair for someone to judge them next to say the usa team because everyone doesn’t always look the same at their age. i admit that it’s pretty suspicious that the girls are underage, but what’s the point of trashing the chinese? if they really aren’t of age, they’ll be the ones paying for it when the government finds out.

  11. kh says:

    are you really that stupid? what do you mean that there is no real/complete proof. lets take the case of He Kexin. there are plenty of records stating that her birthday makes her too young to compete, up until she got on the Olympic team, when the government “found discrepancies” in the records and gave her a passport making her 16 this year. The government is part of it and the younger athletes probly have no clue what is going on.

  12. Crystal says:

    Its not just that they look young, or are short, but one of the girls reportedly weights something like 67 pounds, at the age of 16, thats just not right. But besides LOOKING young, several of the girls have been registered for competitions repeatedly in the last few years with ages that would put them under 16 currently, and then mysteriously when they become olympic contenders they turn up with a new birth year. THAT IS NOT RIGHT. Whether it gives them the upper hand or not, it is against the rules, and it goes to show that China does not respect the rules on a Global forum. But thats what China does, cover up the ugliness to trick people that they are not the dictators they are. They have done ALOT of this to get ready for this olympics and the IOC needs to seriously consider what they are doing to humanity when they elect a country to host.

  13. SteveT says:

    All those that are surprised by this raise your hand. China has cut every corner they possibly can in order to become part of the rest of the world, yet they continue to fail miserably in the human rights arena. They have never had a problem lying or cheating in order to gain the upper hand. I’m just glad I’m not wasting my time watching that tripe.

  14. Poppy says:

    Hi. I just want to clarify that according to Chinese calender year for age, a child when born is already considered one year old (counting the 9 months in mum’s tummy). And also there are still alot of kids born in distant villages without the aid of modern hospital facilities – you know –> the midwives days?!! And alot of the parents are still illiterate so, they will only register the child’s birth when he/she needs to go to school. Instead of criticizing others by considering senarios closer to the luxuries we have. Maybe you should put yourself out there and think out of the box how it would be like to not be born in the united states.
    And asian girls DO look younger and are smaller built in general. One could argue that in other sports like e.g. basketball, is unfair that most asians are shorter than the non-asian competitors? Should we then start to have a height limitations for these games ? In the end it is the overall training and sportmenship that ultimately gives an edge for winning. If height and built are so important, then we’d better have a height/built screening for all sports in order to be fair to all enthnicity.
    As for cheating….. at least they are not using performance enhancing drugs. Please remember that when you are pointing a finger at someone else, the other three fingers are pointing towards yourself.

  15. Not Fooled says:

    Something should be done about this. Win or Lose, The Chinese should not be allowed to Cheat Like This.
    The IOC should conduct some DNA and bone density tests on these atheletes. When They are found Cheating the Chinese officials should pay the price for allowing Them to Cheat. The rest of the world Abides by the Rules, Why should the Chinese not have to play by the rules also.. I any medals are Won after they are found to be cheating the medals should be stripped away and taken back from them. This is Sick. The world needs to check them.

  16. stina says:

    Youth can be an advantage; and sometime it can’t. Look at Oksana Chusovitina, who is 33 and competing in her 5th Olympics (she competes for Germany but used to compete for another country). The point is not whether the Chinese team would have an advantage or not because the girls are actually 14 instead of 16; the point is that cheating is cheating. I haven’t seen all the evidence so I have no opinion as to whether they are cheating or not, but there should be a full investigation. Since the games will probably be over before any investigation would be complete, then we should just enjoy the competition and if it is later found out that China truly was cheating, then those girls, and the team itself, should be stripped of any medals they win. Plus, who know, maybe karma will come along and ruin China’s chances — just the the Americans had some issues during qualifications, maybe the Chinese will have trouble the rest of the way.

  17. A. says:

    Poor girls. If they are, indeed, underage, they will probably get stripped of their medals (if they win any, which, I understand, is very likely) and will be dishonored in front of the whole world. But none of it would be their fault, because I’m sure that no one even asked for their opinion on this, they were just made slaves to the sport since, like, toddlerhood, and told by the big shots in charge when and where to compete, and to shut up about their real birthday or else.

  18. Troy says:

    I guess with a name like “Chink_Killer” no one can expect you to behave any differently than you are, but being defamatory and outright racist seems to me pretty unacceptable. What is it that makes you feel as though you should see other people in this light. Is it because they are different than you. I’ve got news for you, most people are different than you and someday you will have to grow up and learn that fact. You should be ashamed of yourself.

  19. LOL_Troy says:

    shut up you chink supporter, these guys are cheating just to get a few more medals, i wonder why china are dominating the olympics at the moment, oh wait maybe its because its hosted in china and all these underage chinks have “support” from the government, they should be ashamed of themselves, they are so desperate just to prove they are worth something, but they’re not worth anything, its pathetic, the reason they work 20 hours a day is because if they dont, they don’t get their grain of rice for the day!!!

  20. Taz says:

    Seriously… I doubt that many (world over) didn’t know China would cheat, lie and steal!! They haven’t kept their word on anything and because it’s “Poor, abused, pick on, under appreciated, misunderstood, slow China” the IOC has given China a huge handicap over everyone else so they could show up at their own party! To bad…it would have been alot more fun and the real athletes could have had a far better time knowing everyone earned their way there in the ”Spirit of the Olympics”.
    As far as all these comments on how young asians look(by the way if you bought your bride you have no idea how old she is) not true. Asian girls only look younger until they are 35 then they age HaRd. There are studies if you don’t believe me..knock yourselves out!
    Olympic conditions- major pollution so let’s light up several tons of fireworks! Glad some of them were fake, it maybe the only reason other than unforecasted rain that the other Olympians can breathe!
    Who else thinks the Americans were stabbed because China stripped that man of everything for their ‘Faking it for the World Event 2008′. Walking around seemingly for weeks without contact with his family and watching people descend upon China , happy, laughing, taking pictures with their families and representing everything he lost…I am sure their are more like him and I feel sorry he lost everything, but I am sure some China spokes person will tell who ever ask that it is worth it and he was happy to give up everything for China’s moment!

  21. Chinese R Cheaters says:

    What do you expect? The Chinese are Gov’t controlled, deceptive, habitual liars. Their success at these games only proves the world’s inability to monitor and control them — They answer to no one. I am at least glad they can’t cheat their way to all the gold and that Phelps, May/Walsh and the BBall team are kicking their @ss

  22. frank da tank says:

    I don’t mean to demonize china but they, much like the united states has done repeadtedly in the past, are doing things to better their own position at the expense of how they are viewed by the international community. Anybody in the states who is annoyed by this should suck it up and realize we’ve done it to the rest of the world a million times over. The chinese government, on the other hand, should reevaluate it’s position of wanting to appear strong and robust on the international stage to the extent of doing things that may them a questionable inhabitant of that stage in the first place. Their behavior stemming from an apparent fear of embarrassment has ironically damaged their international reputation far more than the right to peaceful protest and a free press ever possibly could. For some reason, they can’t seem to understand this.

  23. Yankee in Connecticut says:

    It was obvious to me two of the girls were 4 years under age.
    It was also obvious to me that little girl lipped synced the opening ceremony. Come on commrades, it’s so obvious! just like the flawed English grammar found on the chopstick wrappers and the Iranian photoshop missle launches!

  24. Yank says:

    These girls are underage. Asian women may look younger than other races of women, but these girls are not women. They still have their baby teeth. Doesn’t China have any common sense? It is so much worse to cheat than to lose.

  25. Ellen says:

    Do you realize that gymnasts players are generally shorter than their peers? And there are differences between different races.
    I was surprised that some 14 or 15-year old American girls look like over 20.

  26. BOb says:

    Oh my goodness. they should be disqualified… if your gonna play the game play by the rules, and be fair to the other teams. its not really important because this girl isnt too good. but still if they can do that.. the united states should be able to do that. its really not fair that China takes the easy way out, and we dont because the united states and the other teams are fair! not china! i suggest they disqualify this what her name. and well it was ovious that she was young because she has the apperence of like a 12 year old. but still NOT FAIR!!!!!!!! i hope US wins on the womens gymnastics.! go shawn!

  27. Breezy says:

    Of course it isnt fair for the Chinese to cheat, but that doesnt mean you can just hate on the Chinese race. whoever flipped his/her **** about the “pathetic chinese” needs to take a step back and look at himself. youre probably just a stupid racist ____ with nothing better to do than bash groups of people you know nothing about. take a minute to understand the chinese culture and maybe you will be able to better understand the desperation of the chinese government to be on equal footing with some of the most powerful nations in the world. im not saying everything they are doing to get to this point is right, but this is the only way they can see how. just look at America’s history and all the mistakes we made (example: SLAVERY) and hopefully you can understand the mindset of a developing country. it is tradition in china to maintain your family’s honor. maybe the chinese government see the PRC as a big family and it believes its job is to maintain the honor of the PRC along with gaining more honor and success while bettering the PRC on an international level. what woudl their other motivation be? to look like ********? they see the olympics as a chance to impress the world while gaining the respect of other nations. seriously, what else could a country in China’s position see the olympics as? it is a great honor for the olympics to be held in whatever country it is held in, and that country is going to do its best to impress the rest of the world. i dont agree with the cheating and i dont think it should be happening, if it even is, but if you know where it is coming from it might make it easier to understand and poeple might not get as angry. even though they shouldnt cheat.

    and dont use racial slurs. that’s just ruthless and makes you look ignorant and uneducated.

  28. Cochrane says:

    There are several “women” on China’s gymnastics team that appear to be younger, much younger, than the legal competition age of 16. While their documentation may support their alleged ages; it is highly unusual for a 16 year old to not have all of their permanent, adult teeth.

  29. truth detector says:

    You can see their missing baby teeth! Who is going to believe Chinese “official documents” anyway. They have a history of cheating like all commie countries. Do you remember their Arnold Swarzenegger female swim team (roids) that swept all the gold medals but were not initially even favored to place. Pretty good for a country that just got a swiming pool :) It just sucks for all the atheletes around the world that play by the rules. I would rather my country not win one medal than have the world think that they cheated to get medals. This is far more disgraceful than losing if you ask me!

  30. Cochrane says:

    IMHO, it’s pretty difficult to argue with baby teeth….

  31. Michael says:

    hmmm… lets see…. rigorous olympic examinations. Passports… proof of age… The rule is 16 in that calender year… seriously people are we arguing about weather a 15 year old is going to beat our 20 year olds… who cares if our 15 year olds are good enough lets stick em in. clearly they are not.

  32. The Truth says:

    You idiots who say those chinese young girls are 16 are such complete morons. 3 of these kids have been listed as much as 2 years younger for several years in international competition listings. Suddenly, this year, they’re 2 years older. The chinks are liars and cheaters, period. They deserve to be outed for their lies and stripped of the medals.

  33. Dave says:

    I’m Chinese and I say that the Commies are a bunch of cheats! They have never played by the rules…so why would they start now, especially when they so desperately wanted to win.

  34. Ian says:

    The Chinese government clearly whipped up some fake passports for these little kids, who just stole the gold medal.

  35. rich scales says:

    see this article basically ADMITS the chinese have cheated stating yes shes underage, so what. So what? so what shes CHEATED, the chinese team have CHEATED there is a rule, the rule has been broken, the rule states 16 is the limit, they cheated, they go home simple.
    If this is allowed, drugs should be allowed, hell they are used to enhance the athelete or member of a team, its deemed illegal (rightly so obviously) BUT, if like th edrug ruling is a RULE, the age ruling is a RULE, its broken, they should be disqualified, or rules are nothing short of a farce.

  36. HATECHEATERS says:

    IT IS A JOKE! THEY ARE NOT OF AGE! IT IS A SHAME THAT A GOLD MEDAL IS WORTH LYING FOR. WHERE IS THE HONOR IN YOUR COUNTRY TO BE HONEST?

  37. goUSA says:

    Yes Gymnasts and the Chinese generally look younger than most, but it’s not just their small and tiny bodies. Look at their faces.. There is no way those girls are 16.
    The Chinese have been caught cheating before, and hopefully they will be caught this time as well.
    If the government issues these “official” documents, the government can easily manipulate them if they are the ones distributing them. It’s that against the multiple competitions these girls have registered for in the past, and offical records found online on multiple sites.
    And as for whoever said something about some poor families not able to afford hospitals to produce accurate birth certificates, and etc? .. I don’t think anyone under those circumstances would be paying top dollar to produce an olympic athlete.
    It’s obvious the Chinese are cheating. It’s sad.

  38. goUSA says:

    …and for everyone who is saying that age doesn’t matter, that’s beyond the point. If age doesn’t matter, it should not matter for everyone, not just the Chinese. If this is the case, the age limitation should be lifted.

  39. Frank says:

    Of course American would never cheat, Marion Jones is a perfect example. It’s only a matter of time before Michael Phelps is caught for being a drug cheat too.

  40. rich scales says:

    breezy I dont hate their race, I hate the government.
    My best friend at school was chinese, he was awesome, his family was awesome……..they were all from china, but hated it…….its a regime.
    The games are about coming together in a fair sport. They say drugs must be remove for fairness, they really come down hard on it, but Im sure some get away with it, however this is OBVIOUS that the chinese gvernment see the olypics as a political statement. However they wont win more medals than the US, in the last olympics China was leading after week 1, but week 2 is where its at. No more weightlifting, shooting, gymnastics and the like where china are really good, its about track and field etc, where the US will just wipe the floor with everyone.
    I have to say it was nice to see the chinese girls and coaches hug on the american girls after the gymnastic competition. Hell the girls in the competition are doing what theyre TOLD to do, the girls that hugged the other girls, are doing it out of respect.
    So there was olympic spirit, which was good to see

  41. rich scales says:

    frank, it was obvious at the time she cheated, I always said it, and I said she should have been disqualified.
    But you know, she lost her records and her medals because she did cheat. (Interestingly, the US press was right behind her being brought to justice).
    Now if its uncovered 4 yeard from now that these gymnasts were underage…….you think they will have to give up their medals???
    nope!

    but why?……..marion jones has

  42. goUSA says:

    If they are caught they should have to give up their medals, they are being taught cheating is okay. But, theres China for you.

  43. Fair Play says:

    Is it real or is it Chinese?
    China opened the Olympic games with computer generated (fake) fireworks, then China faked a performance by a little girl, then China faked the passports of its female gymnastic team to cheat its way to a Gold medal. What have I learned from the 2008 Olympic Games? That China is a country that is without INTEGRITY, HONOR, or RESPECT for the very sanctity of the games for which it was chosen to host. You have dishonored your country and every Olympic champion cheated by your actions.

  44. Quit Whining says:

    Do Americans always have to have an excuse for losing? Can’t you just take a loss and suck it up?

    Get off your pedestal and realize that America is NOT holier than every country in this world, they are NOT always Honest when it comes to athleticism (Marion Jones, anyone?), and they are most certainly guilty of being everything the “chinks” are guilty of being. Instead of pointing fingers at other people’s government, why not focus on yours?How about addressing the increasing number violence and sexual deviance found in this country? How’s that any better?

    People like chink_killer only help perpetuate the stereotype that Americans are ignorant, falsely-entitled haters. That, I find very sad. All of my American friends are wonderful, educated, and cultured people. I’m sure there are Americans reading this and saying, “I know what you mean!” Don’t you hate being stereotyped just because the more outspoken people are people like chink_killer? How are people like chink_killer any better than the corrupt officials in China? And Chink_killer, you want to kill all the “chinks” including the ones being used and abused? Go read a book and a great one to start off with is the BIBLE. Read The Sermon on the Mount and while you are at it, 1 Corinthians 13.

    America is a great, great country and has so much potential to be the best for a long long time. If only some people would change their mindset.

  45. Marie says:

    it just makes my heart hurt. The rules were put in place to protect the gymnasts. I’ve watched for years when everyone was commenting on the young age of the competitors and the huge risk they were taking, doing dangerous tricks before their bones developed just to be competitive on the international stage. Bela says we have 14-15 years olds who could compete but were not eligible due to their age. Yet these girls will probably be too old to compete in 4 years or will most likely suffer an injury that would lessen their competitive edge. In an era when every successful person is accused of drugging in every other sport, it doesn’t seem right that in this instance, they are willing to look the other way in the face of such suspicious evidence. I can see writing off one error in reporting. But numerous? I dunno……….

  46. Amy says:

    I cannot believe anyone would justify this with the Chinese calendar! competing in an age specific competition as the Olympics. These girls are trained from age 3 to be gymnasts. Someone mentioned “at least they are not using drugs”- who says they didn’t give these girls grown inhibitors at a young age. These crazy practices have been going on for centuries in China. True, women in China are smaller- these girls not only look underdeveloped, but they also act like 10-12 year olds. You can see it in their faces and in their demeanor. They have a huge advantage- lighter, fearless, carefree, and small. Did you see them on the floor? The two littlest ones were the only ones not having any trouble staying within bounds– of course their rotations are much shorter! They are talented…true, but they are not owed anything for their lot in life, if in fact it was possibly as tragic as some of you have suggested. If anything I feel sorry for them. They have to live with what their government has done to them. Cheaters never truly win. Rules are rules- doesn’t matter whether they are fair. China is cheating and should have been disqualified.

  47. Mal says:

    It’s a shame that 6 talented young American women who worked their tails off to compete at these games at the levels they did come in second to cheats and liars. One can only hope that after these games guilt will set in on these girls and they will admit to their illegal participation in these games.

  48. Yes! says:

    If only the Chinese knew how to host an Olympics like Nazi Germany. Now those guys were a class act.

  49. goUSA says:

    Way to be a hypocrit…… Criticizing Americans just as some criticized the Chinese.

    Sorry, I didn’t realize allowing cheating was whining about losing (even though the controversy started before the games did..).

    What we are saying is..yes, Americans have been caught for cheating (Marion Jones..) and was stripped of his medals.. now why is it wrong to want the same treatment when another country is cheating?

    I guess this turned into attack the governments because some people want honesty..

  50. Quit Whining says:

    Fair Play: You make me laugh. “That China is a country that is without INTEGRITY, HONOR, or RESPECT for the very sanctity of the games for which it was chosen to host.” I guess America MIGHT be able to have those traits when they host the Olympics but outside of that, we’re all rockin’ on the same boat.

    PS: I feel horrible for Alicia from Team USA. I hope this does not eat her up for the rest of her life! My heart breaks for her.

  51. Disappointed says:

    I for one am very disgruntled. There is certainly an advantage to being younger in gymastics. Why do you think most female gymnists’ careers are over at age 20-25? But that is entirely beside the point.

    It’s not just the fact that they used younger girls than they were supposed to, thereby giving them an unfair advantage; it’s that they falsified a girl’s or some girls’ age/ages so she could compete because they knew she was outstanding. The best girl on their team is most likely underaged. They wanted their team to win on their own soil, so instead of doing the right thing and waiting until she was old enough (and thus running the risk that she loses much of her agility as she got older, which is very often the case), they falsified her age. She should have never been in the 2008 Olympics. End of story. And if she hadn’t been, it may have been a different outcome.

  52. Quit Whining says:

    How is pointing out facts the same as criticizing America? Fact: Chink_Killer’s comments and name = racist. Fact: America’s had it’s history of mistakes (just like every other government has). Fact: there is an American stereotype that I do NOT agree with. You said you wanted Honesty but I guess to you, honesty means hypocrisy.

  53. Mal says:

    Just because one persons comment/name is racist doesn’t mean the rest of us are bad people for wanting to see justice done for the girls who just worked there a**’s off

  54. goUSA says:

    Honestly means hypocrisy? That’s a lil contradicting but alright..

    Like I said, America HAS had it’s mistakes, and they have been dealt with according to the rules. Medals were taken away. Why are these Chinese girls an exception?

  55. Mel says:

    hmmm… authoritarian government, no freedom of press, cleansed the city in “preparation”, denied visas, squashed any potential protests. yeah, they’re probably being honest about the ages of these children.

  56. Quit Whining says:

    For the record, I greatly dislike the Chinese government. Greatly. I feel horrible for the people who have to suffer under the Chinese government. I’ve known many and heard many horror stories. I also don’t agree with cheating your way through anything (Olympics or a simple driving written test). The only person I had a problem with here was Chink_Killer and I guess it’s pretty evident why. I will always stand up to Haters no matter what race they are or who they are targeting.

  57. Kelly S says:

    Yes the Chinese are smaller than the females in the US. BUT did you happen to see the big smile on the little girl’s face? She had as many permanent teeth as my 11 year old daughter. There is no way that the GIRL I saw was a 16 year old WOMAN. I can’t believe that this is ignored. It is not fair to the US team, Think of how the team must feel knowing that they are facing unfair competition and yet they are expected to smile through it.

  58. Marie says:

    Frankly, this is about winning or losing. We win/lose placings all the team. Its frustrating to watch, but we are used to that. I think where people are getting upset is knowing that there is another possible outcome that could have been played out.

  59. USA_Wins says:

    There’s no doubt in my mind that some were underage. And no matter if Chinese gets to keep the gold or not, as far as I’m concerned, the US wins because China is disqualified.

  60. goUSA says:

    Except you were just hating on the entire country of the United States beacuse of one person’s user name.

  61. Mal says:

    True. In my mind we took the gold. Atleast all of our girls had all of their adult teeth in.

  62. Quit Whining says:

    goUSA maybe you should reread what I wrote. I said that it seemed like to Y-O-U, my honesty was construed of as hypocrisy, ergo to you, honesty = hypocrisy. But if there is more concrete proof to prove that the girls are underaged, all their medals should be stripped away. But simply saying, “They are short, too light, faces look too younger, hips aren’t broad enough” and listing other physical attributes are not enough.

  63. Quit Whining says:

    You can try to twist my words all you want, goUSA. How objective are you being when reading messages? Did you forget the part where I hailed the USA as being a great country? Of course you did.

  64. goUSA says:

    I don’t think they would have opened an investigation with proof only being physical. Which they didn’t. There are numerous competitions these girls have registered for with ages that differ from those listed on their ‘official’ passport. It’s not rocket science to figure out what’s going on.

  65. Frank says:

    Other American cheats who have been caught, Kelli White, Sandra Glover, Tim Montgomery, CJ Hunter, Calvin Harrison… surely the US Olympic team officials would have known this before they competed. Seems just a bit hypocritical to make accusations at everyone else when clearly the US cheats as much as anyone else.

  66. USA baby... says:

    Okay, I understand that winning is a great feeling…but to have to cheat to get there is ridiculous and shows how much the Chinese want to degrade the other teams to make themselves look better.

    I hope to god that they are disqualified and have to give all of the medals to those who really deserve them. Besides the calls from the judges have been the worst that I have ever seen, the US and China make the same mistakes yet they always score higher…coincidence…yea right!

  67. Quit Whining says:

    We’re arguing the same point here, goUSA. I, too, want these games to be fair. I don’t enjoy knowing there are people like chink_killer out there. Just like Mal does not enjoy being lumped into a stereotype like chink_killer (which by the way, Mal, I understand your point).

  68. goUSA says:

    It doesn’t really do it for me when because one person’s user name is racist, you argue for paragraphs about the ‘American stereotype’, but then say you love the country.

    the whole, “do you need an excuse for losing, can’t you just suck it up?”
    No, because the Chinese cheated. It’s not that hard.

  69. ChinaCheats says:

    Anyone who has seen Chinese people cut in front of a long line knows they love to cheat!

  70. Wow, really? says:

    I would encourage anyone with an opinion to express their minds in a thoughtful and appropriate manner without resorting to racist and inflammatory language. Because hiding beyond your computer screen while you mouth off to incite a race riot, is pretty uncool, to say the least. As for criticizing the NYTimes for “accurate” reporting, the NYT is not the final word. They have been known to make mistakes as well. Getting all of your facts and research from one source is totally grade-school.

    I know whatever I say here may not change the minds of the racists out there, but I would hope you would just compose yourselves with a little more dignity, that’s all.

    And If these young ladies are indeed under 16, then they will be stripped of their medals. And that is a hell of a lot more shameful, no? I mean, just look at what happened to Marion Jones.

  71. goUSA says:

    This is ridiculous, I don’t know why the Chinese were even allowed to hold the olympics. They have always been deceitful.

    F*ck the Chinese, take their medals away, get the olympics in a civilized FAIR country.

    BYE.

  72. CL says:

    I do not respect any of these debates if everyone are going to use racial remarks. Please don’t use words like chink. It just makes you look like an uneducated idiot. We would not want to hear the word nigger if we are on black issue. Just calm down people. Seriously it doesn’t surprise me because many athletes don’t play by the rules accurately. For example, Americans are known to dope. Yada Yada. I’m tired of this controversy.

  73. Quit Whining says:

    Luckily for me, whether or not I am “doing it for you” does not keep me up at night. I saw a few “chinks” on this blog before I made my post, hence deducing that there are at least a couple, if not a few racists reading this blog. I was bringing to light the American stereotype NOT saying I agreed with it. However, you are either deliberately twisting my words or ignorantly missing my point, none of the above make me want to keep replying to you. If you refuse to or can’t see my point, we are simply speaking on different levels.

  74. ChinaCheats says:

    Also, did you see how pumped the men’s team was….choose your physical description of Chinese people will ya’…..either they’re small or they’re not!!! The men’s team was ripped beyond belief – the announcer said the team was completing feats in the ring exercise that had never been considered possible!!! Looks like their scientists have found an undetectable steroid!!!!!!!!
    Oh, by the way, Chinese people cheat!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

  75. Quit Whining says:

    Ha! Way to represent goUSA. I’m sure your mom would be proud.

    By the way, wow, really? people aren’t really as anonymous as they think they are on blogs. It’s actually not that hard to track people down. It just takes effort and a heck of a lot of brains.

  76. Mal says:

    Bottom line It’s a shame that any country usa, china, etc… would ever have to cheat in anyway to get an edge over competition. Any country/individual who has ever done so should suffer the consequences I don’t care what country or individual it is. In this case it is China but that doesn’t give anyone the right to use slang or inappropriate terms.

  77. ChinaCheats says:

    Nobody will strip these women of their medals which is too bad. Did they take away the metal of the Chinese girl who admitted being 14 in the 2000 Olympics. I don’t need passports to tell me the age of these girls. Their team has at least several underage members – just LOOK at them!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

  78. Regan says:

    Not only do I think they are cheating by lying about the ages of these girls but I suspect that they are using pharmaceuticals to delay the onset of puberty in their female gymnasts. By delaying the onset, you have girls who are much more physcailly able to execute quicker rotations, are lighter and more llightweight. For a supposed 16 yr old to weigh less than 80lbs…well in the US we would say that she has probably been malnourished and neglected by her caretakers who would likely be subject to criminal charges.

  79. Quit Whining says:

    Mal, if you’re an American, you just presented your country in a better light. Speaking of representing America in a great light, Michael Phelps has won me over. He’s such a humble champion. I love that.

  80. Greg says:

    By the way coming from a forensicn anthropology stand point, the hip width and the development of adult teeth is a sure way to determine age… Facial structure is a little harder to determine. An easier way would be to look at all the sutures in the bones and see if fusion has occured. 2 of these girls definitely are not 16.

  81. Mal says:

    too bad the chinese KNOW they are underage so they won’t submit to any testing what so ever I’m sure. It’s too bad they can’t be forced to

  82. Mal says:

    well off to bed. almost 12 :30 :-( We will see what Tomorrow brings! Hopefully some more Gold for the U.S.!!! Good Night!

  83. LOL says:

    Reading some of these comments are hilarious! “Screw the chinese, chinese are cheaters…” yadida…C’mon, give those little hard-working Chinese girls some credit! I for one can’t say that I believe the Chinese are cheaters. They won the gold medal fair and square. Sorry US. But your team screwed up pretty bad.

    Oh, and speaking about real cheats…I love Marion Jones. She’s such a humble champion!

  84. Greg says:

    Oh I agree those girls they put out there beat us fair and square. They were amazing… the fact is though that some arent 16, which regulations require them to be. No one here is saying the “girls” cheated, but that the gov cheated/forged documentation to put those girls on the floor. The best team won, no doubt. Unfortunately it wasnt a legal team.

  85. Jello says:

    As others have said, just look at the bone structure and the teeth. You could tell on a couple just from those things. One girl still had holes in her smile from where her teeth are still falling out! I cannot believe that China is getting away with this. You would think the INTERNATIONAL committee would look into this a little more than just trusting a country that has so much conflict and cover up going on anyway. Bela was right…. let all 14 year olds compete if they think they have the advantage. If not, then don’t let them sneak by and basically cheat their way through the olympics. It’s a shame that there is such a lack of integrity of the international gymnastics committee.

  86. peepeeinyourcoke says:

    if youve dealt with the chinese before you know they are totally compulsive cheaters. they cheat as much as possible at all times.

    it is utterly obvoius some of those girls are not even 12 years old, forget 16.

    china needs to cheat to win, period

  87. Teeth??! says:

    You’ve got to be kidding me? You are going to compare teeth? I, for one, can tell you that most Chinese do not have enough money to buy food, much less to pay for dentists! You can’t expect them to have healthy teeth like Americans. The standard of living is just atrocious and comparable to what the U.S. was in the 1800’s early 1900’s.

  88. Teeth??! says:

    peepeeinyourcoke: as opposed to being a compulsive liar like the U.S. government?

  89. Hom says:

    The truth is, I don’t believe being underaged gives any sort of advantage. Gymnastics, apart from the physical technique required, really requires the mental maturity.

    Being underaged however, does affect the athlete’s health. What we should be angered about isn’t about how they didn’t deserve to win because they cheated, but rather the fact that if they are under-aged, it’s how this sport will affect them physically in the future.

    In regards to the comment from peepeeinyourcoke, I don’t know how many chinese people you’ve dealt with, to make such accusations! Being an American, I am ashamed to find out how many drug cheats from our team are yet to be caught out.

  90. Greg says:

    Great comment j.e.l.l.o… sorry Cosbey popped into my head and Icouldnt resist. No seriously, I dont care which country does it. Even one of the romanian/russian girls looked underage. If the rules are out there then they need to be enforced. The way they enforce the age limit would be like asking the representing country to do the drug testing on the athletes and then send it to the IOC in “GOOD FAITH” and hope that it hasnt been altered. ANY country found breaking the rules (any of them) should be punished. Unfortunately this problem probably wont be solved for a long time until the science to do so is in place.

  91. Greg says:

    Wrong hom… A younger body, because sutures to condyles have not fused, enables the body to be more pliable in movements while increasing risk of injury. Also the phsyics of a smaller frame give certain benefits. If you would like to know just which ones look online.

  92. kell says:

    I wish to confront “POPPY” regarding his/her previous post.
    Dear POPPY,
    I would like to recognize and praise you for your complete lack of critical thinking skills. I was unsure it was even necessary to correct your ignorance… however I find myself unable to let such (excuse me) **** exist without revealing the reasons it shouldn’t even be good enough to be called ****. First, I would like to say your grammar is atrocious. For example, “alot” is not a word. I believe you should invest in spell check, or better yet an EDUCATION. However, spell check only works for those mentally capable of understanding the importance of that red (sometimes green) squiggly line under words they type. I think you ought to humor everyone reading and let us know what you believe “calend[A]r year” means? On second thought, forget it; I don’t think anyone deserves to suffer through your response. Are you content in claiming that when a Chinese citizen is asked of her/his age, they will consider the day his/her mother gave birth, the number of days since their parents screwed to conceive him/her, then add three months… for ***** and giggles? I would enjoy your reply. Perhaps you could explain how both 9 months and 12 months can both make up a year. As if it weren’t enough to have your English scrutinized! I could not help but notice your statement, “Please remember that when you are pointing a finger at someone else, the other three fingers are pointing towards yourself.” This is an awful claim. Perhaps you’re being “clever” and not counting the thumb. If this is the case, you should have taken into account the four (non thumb) digits on the opposite limb also ought to be considered. AND, I’d rather not get into this, but if one points a finger at another, who is to say their other fingers are not extended in the same direction? You didn’t specify ONLY one finger was pointing. Perhaps two fingers point wherever you want them to. For ex. We’ll say south. But the other fingers could point north, east or west.
    Well, I’ve strayed from gymnastics but my point was to prove your ignorance. And “sportmenship,” what the hell is that?

  93. gabba says:

    Just throwing it out there…the USA team that all of you are so proud of was coached by Liang Chow, a gymnast trained by those “evil Chinese” you all talk about.

    Take that fuckers.

  94. Woot says:

    AMEN GABBA!

  95. Woot says:

    =O! Perhaps the Americans also cheated because they used a cheating “chink” coach?!

  96. TheJBasser says:

    Unless you are an absolutely delusional moron, there is no question that at least 2 of the Chinese competitors were underage. Even the announcers for NBC were making comments like, “It’s a shame that the girls were underage and should not have been allowed to compete…but this is another issue.” There is no question that it gave China a monstrous advantage…but the real issue to me is the fact that a sovereign country lied in the face of the entire world in order to win this competition. Had the U.S., or ANY other country been allowed to enter 12 to 14 year old girls into the competition, the outcome could have been completely different. Again…who cares who won the gold… But, any country who wins it by cheating and lying does not deserve any sort of respect or recognition. I say SHAME on them. No honor whatsoever.

  97. ... says:

    Do you all realize that winning a gold medal is only temporary satisfaction? You in a gold medal….SO WHAT? human goals leave you so empty. Anyways, we don’t know if China cheated…but think about it…a county that has such a high population…don’t you think it’s possible for them to find 6 anomalies among them? especially when their race looks so young to start with? Don’t be so quick to judge when you don’t know. If they cheated, it will eventually be found out, and if they are not, well, the competitors will know and they will never truly be able to be proud of their Gold medal–punishment enough! and if they didn’t cheat…then wow, appreciate their skill and pure athleticism! I’m not trying to condone the chinese government, but how many times has the US government lied for the “better interest” of their country? China is not the only government at fault.
    USA was not good enough this time around…get over it. They will have another chance.

  98. Greg says:

    Teeth?!?! in the 1800’s 1900’s “little girls” werent losing teeth (especially front incisors) due to malnutrition, not have dentists, or living conditions. Honestly, some people on here need to think berfore they say things.

  99. Greg says:

    I agree ..said and good post, although it might never come out if they did cheat.

  100. Greg says:

    amazing post kell

  101. TheJBasser says:

    At this point, it’s not a judgement… There is plenty of physical evidence that these girls are underage. There is paperwork stating their ages in various competitions leading up to the Olympics that would make it impossible for them to be of legal age. I know we shouldn’t be quick to accuse…but, let’s not be stupid either… You can’t just ignore cold hard facts.

  102. Jennifer says:

    This is disgraceful!! It is very obvious to anyone that 1/2 of China’s team is of illegal age. I pray that they will have those gold medal stripped from their cheating butts. yes Asians do normally look a little young for their age, but they look about 11 and earlier records shoe that they are in fact about 14. I just find this whole process disgusting. I know they are trying to show how modern they can be and how “free” their people are. One of the Chinese gymnasts was saying how she was forced into a camp and asked to go home ans was DENIED! sounds real free to me. The rules are not stupid they are there to protect the girls. A 14 year old should not be put in that position where she could harm herself for life and not to mention the press and all the traveling. Rules are made to be followed not bent like China does all the time. you can’t call yourself #1 if you cheated your way to it. Karma is a b****!

  103. Greg says:

    Gabba…. the chinese coach was a personal coach of shawn johnson who was asked to attend and hel. He is an amazing coach and an amazing asset to the team. I also would like to note that we have the previous Chinese diving coach trying to resurrect our once heralded program!!

  104. ChinaCheats says:

    Wait till you see the photos that come out at the 20th anniversary of Tiananmen Square on June 4th, 2009. There are images we never saw in the West!!!

  105. Jennifer says:

    and the U.S government does not lie to put in gymnists that are underage. Our government is more concerned with other things. so maybe the U.S. govt. has lied about things but one this isnt 2 rights make a wrong and 2 they havent lied about an olympic game….i mean its something sooo stupid to lie about because China thinks it will bring them honor….please…

  106. ... says:

    okay, i’m out. this is all speculation and mostly bordering on ignorance. have fun talking about it.

  107. Jennifer says:

    hey Gabba…..yeah and that chinese coach came to America for what reason?? Land of opputunity

  108. kcheng says:

    i totally disagree that asian women should look like underdeveloped girls at age 16. that’s ****. the chinese sent a team of underage girls!!! looking young is one thing. being underdeveloped is another! what about the men??!!! there is no question on the team members from all the countries! By the way, i am an asian male. i know of no 16 year old asian girls known in the usa, taiwan, korea, japan looking like the girls on the chinese gymnastic team. get the actual 16 year olds in china and they would look like a teenager!

  109. poopyq says:

    I AGREE WITH CHINK KILLER. THEY’RE ALL LIKE… 9 YEARS OLD.

  110. Russ says:

    A couple of points.

    1. Marion Jones cheated, not the U.S government.
    2. Chinese picked their best people and apparently they thought younger was better so lets quit debating this issue.
    3. Cheating is wrong no matter if the cheaters do not benefit. This transcends the winning of medals. If the Chinese come in 7th the issue is still the same – VERY WRONG.
    4. If this issue is not pursued, the Olympics should take a big hit.
    5. When I see this on TV I feel as though I am being laughed at every minute by the Chinese government.
    6. If this was going on in the U.S. there would be 50 investigative reporters digging up dirt and reporting on it at every oppourtunity.
    7. China does not need this, they are quite remarkable without winning medals.
    8. This type of behavior from a powerhouse like China gives me great pause. I hope the world can rein in this giant.

  111. Aaron says:

    I feel sorry for those chinese gymnists… I, like alot of the others, dont believe they are of legal age. Weather they’re of legal age or not, you have to admit, they did a great job and earned their medals.
    But, Shame on China for putting them in this situation. Wasnt there an article stating that one of the gymnsist was recently in another competition and stated her age was 14?
    Either way, great job to both teams, US and China.

  112. Karthik says:

    It is always easy to pick on things to prove a point. If China cheats and wins and the Americans are playing by the rules and lost, so be it. America should be proud that they didn’t break any rules. Are wars and invasions done by the book? Let’s say China actually cheated, why are people going off on tangents to say screw China and other bad things. It is this immature thought process that lets a country go and kil hundreds of thousands of innocent people in order to take out a bad leader. The animal-like desire to win forces one to cheat and the other to scream ‘foul play’ and take out an ‘all attack cry’ when they lose. Just calm down people. Don’t play god. Just look at yourself in the mirror.

  113. kell says:

    Thank you, Greg. I am surprised someone else took the time to read such a lengthy post. It was, believe it or not, much longer. I took out two paragraphs. I did not want to scrutinize Poppy’s “insight” further. I believe most of us will realize that which poppy does not.
    Poppy, is the time difference, between the USA and china, less than 24 hours? If it is not, how would the time differences be calculated according to your calendAr years?

  114. Lisa says:

    China Cheaters!! As far as i am concerned USA won the Gold they just didn’t get to take it home. There is no way Dueng LinLin was 16 by the looks of her teeth i would say she was about 12. I think one was about 16, and they said she was 20. These poor people and there young children. China talks so much about HONER…..please, they should be ashamed of themselves.

    Bella said that younger girls are more carefree and their nerves doesn’t get to them. Unlike the older girls they sometimes over analyze and understand the importance of their routines.

  115. Dawn says:

    I’m a former gymnast and I’ve LOVED watching the Olympics since I was a little girl. It is easier to compete in gymnastics when you are smaller and lighter. It does give you an advantage. I tried not to think about the issues surrounding the age of the Chinese Gymnasts as I watched tonight. There were some really amazing performances this evening – and some that were truly heartbreaking. Unfortunately, I couldn’t put the age issue out of my mind. When you’ve seen press articles that state their ages a few years younger, and now they are suddenly 16, it does take away from their performance because it wasn’t fair.

    The rules are there for reasons: to protect the gymnasts, as a few people have mentioned above, and to attempt to create a fair playing field. I agree with the comments people have made about that fact that having your medal stripped is a disgrace. Loosing a competition after you’ve done you’re best in that particular moment is not a disgrace. Apparently, not all people or countries agree with that and will cheat to win. However, getting a medal after someone else has been stripped of it doesn’t give the actual winner the same experience. You can’t go back up on the podium, watch your country’s flag fly the highest and hear your national anthem. That is also heartbreaking.

    Cheating is wrong, and it should be dealt with accordingly. Whether you approve of the chinese government or not is a different issue. Hate the cheating, but not the gymnasts and certainly not all chinese people. The Olympic games were created in the spirit of peace. Baron Pierre de Coubertin, the founder of the modern games, said, “Let us export our oarsmen, our runners, our fencers into other lands… and the day it is introduced the cause of peace will have received a new and strong ally…”

    He was also the first president of the IOC. Maybe the IOC needs to take another look at how cheating is dealt with today. Maybe the cheater’s country should be penalized. In this case, China would be penalized.

    I too feel really bad for Alicia from team USA. Hopefully she is surrounded by people who love her and who will help build her back up after such great disappointment.

  116. kell says:

    Just throwing it out there…the USA team that all of you are so proud of was coached by Liang Chow, a gymnast trained by those “evil Chinese” you all talk about.

    Take that fuckers.
    Good for you, for you believe you can physically throw something abstract. I would like to make it known that you are, perhaps unknowingly, contradicting yourself. While telling “all of us” our team was coached (whatever, you can have this one) by chow, you suggested he was evil. But you wanted to imply that he was not evil otherwise, what point would you possibly hope to make? I’ll spare your brainpower and state you proved the opposite point i believe you intended to make.

  117. kell says:

    I apologize for omitting quotation marks. after the pseudo-word “fuckers” (and the period) is where my thoughts begin.

  118. mimi says:

    oh come on, who is china trying to fool, it is so obvious they are underage. go figure, it’s expected…

  119. Lisa Wong says:

    Frankly, I think this whole thing is completely overblown. Why should age matter. Yes, admittedly, it is a rule, but it is a bizarre and stupid rule because if you did not “cheat” you would be leaving off some of the best gymnasts in the world.

    The Olympics are filled with stupid rules that exclude the most skilled competitors. Does it seem fair that the Chinese women’s badminton team can only have three representatives play in women’s singles badminton? That is ridiculous–there are at least 10 chinese women in the top 20 in world rankings and all 10 of these women should be able to play in the Olympics.

    Why should countries follow nonsensical rules that exclude the best competitors? I applaud China for bravely blasting through the bizarre and random roadblocks that the International Olympic Committee has instituted just to keep the Chinese from getting the most medals of any country!

  120. andrew says:

    congratulations to the americans
    who should have won the gold tonight

    shame on the chinese

  121. kell says:

    I think there ought never have been an age requirement for the olympics. But what I think doesn’t matter. The competitors are required to be over 16 years of age. I’m sure there is a reason(?). I watched the team competition, pacing the living room floor, with the reluctant acceptance of the truth. It does not, perhaps should not, matter how old one is. If certain Chinese gymnasts are under 16, then the only valid point to be made is that they are under 16. But in the grand scheme of things, I’ll poetically state it sucks to be them. They performed well, deserved the gold, but I feel safe in stating, because of the age discrepancy the Chinese can never appreciate their gold medal like a gold medal should be appreciated. As a result the USA cannot appreciate their silver medal as it ought to be appreciated .

  122. US CHINAGIRL says:

    I’m Chinese, I grew up in Seattle, WA, and all my life I’ve been considered younger than I look by big dumb white people. It’s led to discrimination in many aspects of my work life, so screw the USA if they think the Chinese gymnasts are underage.

  123. chinese says:

    **** everyone

  124. US CHINAGIRL says:

    Furthermore, Sean Johnson looks 10.

  125. kell says:

    I’m sorry, chinagirl from seattle. The fact that you have been CONSIDERED younger than you look can not lead to discrimination. the fact that you do look younger than your actual age can. Might I suggest you relocate yourself if you feel so strongly against the USA.

  126. B.J. Nightingale says:

    It is hard for me to fathom why the 16-year age rule was ever adopted by the IOC. Nadia was 14 when she won gold; Mary Lou was 15. It is sad but true that most female gymnists have peaked before the age of 16. By the age of 17 many are already past their prime. The same is true of female ice skaters. The best skater in the world was unable to compete in the last winter olympics. The Chinese should not be faulted for putting their most talented girls to the test. Four years from now these girls may not be able to compete at the same level. The fault is not with the Chinese. The fault is with the Committee that changed the rules. Are the Chinese cheating? I don’t think so. Their gymnists, regardless of age, are simply the best.

  127. Laughable says:

    First, i would like to say to those who are saying that people need to get the facts before they complain.. Um.. did anyone read this? Clearly there are documents that prove the girls are underage. That sounds like pretty good facts to base ones unhappy opinion on.

    Second, i do not care if the Americans came in 2nd or dead last, i care about the fact that China has won a gold metal, and did so by not following the rules. No one is saying these girls are not good. But what if say the US had younger girls on their team who wouldn’t of fallen on the beam? Being younger has a huge advantage. Most of those girls barely even have a bra yet. Being 16 or older, more weight is added onto girls chest because breasts form. Which in turn added more wight. Some girls are lucky to be that old and not have big breasts, but look at Alica. She had a fuller figure then usual, and that weight clearly makes a difference.

    China was so proud to get this opportunity to host these games.. and they wanted to try and use that to show the world that they are a remarkable country.. however, they have gone to great lengths to hide their true country, to make us believe something that isn’t true. To cheat in order to prove they are the best, hurts them soooo much more then to play fair and lose. Can they not see that having a gold metal does not mean they are real gold metal winners in the eyes of the world? Having that metal doesn’t mean **** if the whole world knows it was won by cheating, and there for, doesn’t look at them as winners?

    If China wanted the world to see them as a good country, they should stop trying to do to whatever lengths they can to show they are prefect, and just be honest. China is hurting their reputation sooo much right now.. that they might not ever be picked again to host the games. With the way they are carrying on, i do hope they aren’t picked again. Its really so unfair to everyone else who play by the rules, to lose to a team/ country thats cheating and winning gold.

    And guys.. just so you all know.. Mike Phelps, who is wining up a storm, is getting drug tested pretty much everyday, to make sure his gold metals are being won fairly. I ask why he has to be tested for then, and the chinese gym team is allow to play under clearly extremely fishy circumstances? If these girls are of legal age.. None of their records should be blocked. Them being blocked clearly shows that China is hiding something. Frankly.. they are not gold metal winners. And its not those girls fault. They are programed to do that job.. and any pleasure they can get from it, is being taken away because they are being forced to break the rules. Its not fair to everyone involved. Its not fair to those girls.. not fair to the silver and bronze metal winners.. and most of all.. not fair to the people who really want the world to see China has a good country.

  128. OMG says:

    You guys gotta ******* calm down. ALL ASIANS will always look younger than the age they really are until they are around 25. Thats when they start to age look wise. Thats why they are shorter than most other races when growing up. Don’t just make racist remarks and bash them because they look younger than you are and you look so goddamn old even though you are still “young”. I think they do look under 16 but that is probably not true.

    **** all you racist *****.

    And w00t China won the gold!

  129. Westside says:

    I’ve got good news…………….

    I just saved a bunch of money on my car insurance by switching to GEICO!

  130. songstress says:

    Hello: Agree with Dawn and JBassett.
    Fairness is the issue. I was appalled too. Our U.S. teams showed greatness in gymnastic routines, one of the real foundations of the Olympic games, designed to unify not divide. Fair play – respect world athletes!
    From, Songstress skier
    P.S.: Togo rules: bronze in kayak!

  131. Sonya says:

    Let’s be honest, there’s only so much information and news we american actually get our hands on, and yet people are judging and make conclusion based on what american tv network, newspaper want us to know and usually positive stories from US and negative stories from other countries. It is sad that the american culture makes us think that we are better than anybody from other countries, look at the cocky reaction from frat boys from men gymnastic team at the olympics, and much more mellow, matured reaction from the chinese men who won gold, and the whole world get to see how cocky we are. I almost feel ashamed to be an american. Back to the topic, I bet IF there is age altering on the american athletes, there will be no words from any one of you here because we are suppose to be the best, so stop feeling bitter and whining because we didn’t win gold, if you have to blame someone, blame the officials who are behind this and leave the chinese people alone.

  132. petiteAmerican says:

    US CHINAGIRL is a racist . . . with her attitude of calling Americans “big dumb white people” I don’t know why she’s living in the USA.

    Nonetheless, she and chink_killer are both so full of venom that they are made for each other.

    There are a lot of American women that are petite, and much smaller than Chinese women, so using that old stereotype as justification for falsifying the ages of gymnastists is WEAK! BTW, US CHINAGIRL, that’s white, black, and red American women.

    As for the article that started this discourse, if the rules were broken, then its wrong. Simple as that. It doesn’t matter who’s doing the breaking. And the consequences go further than just “gold”; I’ll bet the Russians would have like to have taken home a medal.

    Most of the comments posted are thought-provoking and sensible. The ones that aren’t just prove how far-reaching the consequences of cheating are. Look how much damage and hate has been generated in just this one column.

  133. Laughable says:

    To OMG: Um.. hello. PLEASE READ the article above before you comment. Clearly there are records -proving- some of the girls ARE underage. Yeah they look it, but there is documentation that PROVES it.. So please stop with the remarks that people are being racist because they just think they are young by their looks alone.

    and to Sonya. This argument happened long before the US even lost to the chinese.. So you can’t say that people are upset cause they lost. How can people be upset over losing to the chinese, when the event didn’t even take place yet? This topic has been called into question even before the Olympics started. Cheating is cheating… and if Mike Phelps was founded to be cheating, i would be pissed and would order his metals be restricted. To win by cheating is dishonorable.. And i would never want to know people from my country won through cheating. It represents American badly.. and thats exactly what china has done by allowing underage girls to compete. The athletes are representing their country here.. and when they do something badly.. it paints their country in a bad light. How can you sit there and say you feel ashamed to be an american by how the americans acted, and then say that China shouldn’t be looked down at by what they are doing some of them are doing? You just contradicted yourself there.

  134. Babu says:

    Why don’t we gather a few asian women around that age and see who can acurately predict there age.

    There are good and bad in every government. I say if there is no proof why is everyone base it on info posted on the net. Some comment that some government try to conceal the bad things. I believe it happens everywhere. You believe that there is really such a thing as free speech in America? Does everyone believe that you can actually and freely express whatever you want? ..I believe all government lies. We can start with Bill Clinton and Bush.

  135. yeah.. says:

    Just because all govt tries to hide things doesn’t make it right to do it. When people find out the govt has been hiding things, they are outraged. Because they know its wrong.. and its a form of lying. It doesn’t excuse any country to do such things. and when they are called out for doing so, we demand action. Clintion was found out to be a liar. It destroyed him. Most govt who are proven to of lied about things, have their lives fall apart because of it. Because its wrong.

    People are calling China out for doing something wrong. Birthday listings should never change… so when why do some of these girls birthdays change on different documents and records?

  136. its gross says:

    China is explorting its children in order to win. Does anyone else see whats wrong with that picture? From Lip singing to making underaged girls do things that the olympics feel is to dangerous for any age lower then 16?

    They are trying to win and paint a prefect picture of themselves at any cost. That greed will cost that good reputation they are trying so hard to receive.

  137. its gross says:

    http://www.chinadaily.com.cn/olympics/2008-05/23/content_6707927.htm

    more Proof. States that the He girl is clearly underage. Fact right there.

  138. its gross says:

    I find it simply disgusting that the only arguement that many of the chinese can come up with is “so what there’s rules, we just want to have out best gymnasts compete surely that cannot be wrong” This highlights the: who cares how i get it as long as i get what i want attitude that many of the chinese people seem to have

    Furthermore, you got to be seriously shortsighted if you believe that NONE of the chinese gymnasts are under 16. I mean sure, asian people are typically smaller than white peole and this is China we’re talking about which has an extremely wide variety of people to choose from for there olympic team but seriously, one of the competitors still had a growing tooth for goodness sakes. Unless, China is using some growth stunt drug on there athletes which would also be cheating, I simply cannot see how some of the gymnasts could be over 16

  139. seriously says:

    seriously? it is pretty obvious that the girls were underage and that the chinese government covered up this fact by producing fake passports.i am very appalled by this, but im even more distraught by the fact that so many people are resorting to racial prejudice in order to criticize what happened. i was totally into the team trials and just about died when alicia fell, but that is the point she fell. in all honesty the americans had a chance to win but didnt make it. so those of us who are blaming the chinese just because we lost are petty. you also need to take into account that those girls who cheated, probably had no choice. taken from their homes at the age of 3 to go into training means there is no other option for them but to win. the pressure is tremendous. the government is never going to own up to the fact that those girls are against regulations, so we should just keep in mind that the chinese govt are taking such measures to seem perfect and move on knowing that not everything we see is fair and righteous and that we shouldnt always be so trusting.

    besides shawn and nastia will kick all those girls’ a** in the all around comp.

  140. applause says:

    bravo LAUGHABLE i wholly agree well said

  141. Matt says:

    first off her name is spelt shawn johnson. secondly, we know she is 16 cause we legit birth records in this country and not a communist government like in friggin 1984by George Orwell. And age does make a differenc ebecause china wants like 12 year olds in these olympics so guess what by the next oylmpics theyll be 16 and can win again. China is obviously cheateing. Its a shame we didnt win gold, feel bad for sacramone. Shawn THe J Train Johnson will crush you thursday night and win the all around

  142. Matt says:

    and by the wya the judging is rigged as well

  143. Reese says:

    I want to point out that when the U.S. bids for the Olympics, it’s every city for itself. And when a U.S. city does get it, how involved do the local citizens get? How involved does the rest of the country get? Getting the Olympics is mostly about tourist revenue, and money for more urban development. The 2008 Olympics is the first Olympics I’ve seen where it has truly been a national effort. I went to China a week before the opening ceremony to avoid the crowds and you cannot imagine how excited everyone is, not just in Beijing. The performers were volunteers, and so are all the people Beijing has stationed at every city block to answer questions and help direct tourists. As for the fireworks, they had real fireworks the day of the ceremony, but they also had three full dress rehearsals that they videotaped. They provided that footage to the news networks just in case the fireworks the day of didn’t show up well. It was the networks’ choice what footage to show. The comments about the fireworks are stupid considering this is the culture that INVENTED them. With all the new technology they developed for the show, do you think they really needed fake fireworks? The guy at the end of the show who lit the torch, he practiced from 1am to 6am every day the week before the show to make sure he got it perfect. He runs a huge sportswear empire and used his own time to practice. Americans can barely even get 25 cheerleaders to be in sync, how hard do you think they had to practice to get that many martial artists together? I agree that using athletes who are underage is cheating, but there are a lot of other comments that are totally unfounded and completely against the spirit of sportsmanship. But what do you expect from a country who depends on dominating in basketball and beach volleyball? This is not a normal Olympics. It is a statement that the rest of the world can no longer ignore or dismiss China, no matter what they do about human rights and pollution. Whether you like it or not, they are a global player and they deserve respect. It’s a shame that the first U.S. president to visit China was Nixon. With a diplomatic relationship with China of not even 40 years, is it any wonder how little Americans understand the culture and motivations of China?

  144. frustration says:

    I must say that the age factor is a problem that needs to be delt with in a medical manner for suspected underage athletes. They drug test Iguess they need to age test. I have an 11 year old that misses the eligability cut off by 2 DAYS for 2012. What do I do go to Mexico and buy a new identity. Is this the way we are supposed to think now or should the IOC actually be accountable for the job they are supposed to do? If rules are set then we should all have to play by them. I am not whining for not winning. I am pissed off because some one is openly cheating and tainting the spirit of the games. This goes on too many more years the games will lose their respectablity.

  145. Mal says:

    If age doesn’t matter then why couldn’t China follow the rules and use I am sure what were able bodied 16 year olds?

  146. MHL says:

    I have an adopted asian daughter who is just turning 8. She is petite compared to her peers, but she is almost 50 pounds. There is no way on God’s green earth some of those Chinese girls are 16. China will go to any lengths to succeed, the fact those girls are taken from their families at age 3 to enter the gymnastics program is heartbreaking.

  147. Calm Down says:

    People, people, please calm down. Being a naturalized US citizen who was born in China, I feel that there should be a few misconceptions clarified.

    Appearance: I have a cousin who just graduate college and is now 23. If I didn’t know that, I would say she looks only 16. She’s not even a gymnast. Gymnasts as a group look younger. Just look at Alicia Sacromone. She doesn’t look 20 either. Plus the fact that American gymnasts start professional training at around 9 or 10 and Chinese start at 3, that’s 6-7 years of normal growth for the Americans before your development is being suppressed by highly intensive training. It is POSSIBLE that the Chinese gymnasts may look younger (significantly) than your neighbor’s kid.

    Comparison: if you look at Cheng Fei, who competed at the Athens games without accusations of being underage, and compare her with her teammates, it is not hard to believe that her teammates are 4 years younger. If you compare Cheng Fei with Alicia, Cheng already looks a few years younger. It is not hard to see that the other Chinese gymnasts may look a few years younger than Shawn Johnson. All I am saying is it is POSSIBLE to be of legal age for these girls. Appearance can be tricky. If you compare Shawn Johnson to the Romanian girls or the Russian girls, it would appear that Shawn is on steroids, which is clearly not the case.

    Diet: The diet here in the US has more dairy products, which helps bone growth. That’s why even the Chinese Americans are bigger sized than the Chinese. Ask a Chinese American girl who normally wears a size 0 in the US to shop in China and they would be embarassed for buying a large. This is because the Chinese diet is rice and vegetable base, which doesn’t help one grow taller or bigger. This is, of course, not to say that all Chinese are small. Just like US is made up of people from different national descents, China has something like 52 different ethnic cultures. In a diverse culture like China, you are bound to find the extremely tall (like Yao Ming) and the extremely small.

    Family background: Another thing to point out is that none of the Chinese gymnasts are from a wealthy family or even middle income family. They are always from poor rural areas, where families have for generations been mal-nourished and poorly fed. Gymnastics is a way for these families to break out of the vicious cycle of poverty. People from these families look nothing close to the Chinese people you see around you.

    Calendar: China historically follows a different calendar based on the Moon rather than the Sun. For people who follow the lunar calendar, even their birthday changes from year to year. My mom, for example, was born on the 15 of July on the lunar calendar. For the life of her, she has no clue when her birthday is for the western calendar that we all use. Additionally, people are considered to be at age of 1 at birth. This is changing but many people still operate this way in China. This change itself can drive confusions as different places follow different standards. For example, if you ask a school administrator at what age is a kid of elementary school age, you may get a response of 6 or 7 depending on which age standard they are following. It is not hard to see different sources portray people at different ages.

    With all that said, I agree that it is also possible for the Chinese government to falsify passports. I have no doubt that a determined country may do things like this. It just makes people who follow the rules to the “T” look that much more impressive, like Michael Phelps. However, what you have to understand is the concept of cheating is understood differently in different culture. Cutting in front of the line in China is not considered cheating. If you confront a person doing that, he/she would laugh at you for being stupid for following a unenforced rule. To the gymnasts who may or may not have falsified their age, they are probably feeling honored to have sacrifised themselves for the greater good of the country. They will have to live forever 2 years older than they really are.

    Bottom line is: There are many cultural differences between the West and the East. Until one is educated of the differences, any judgement is premature. The purpose of holding the Olympics games in Beijing is so that the Western cultures can get to know the Chinese culture a bit better. I am sure, for those athletes, reporters, and sports enthusiasts who are in China, they are getting a renewed understanding of the culture and achieving a different level of appreciation.

  148. Camerin says:

    Cheating is cheating and more news keeps coming out about this. Being that young is def. a advantage for the woman because think about the 4 inch beam
    and having no hips weighing in at 60 pounds big advantage its phsics! Its krazy how its so obvious but no one cares because they dont want to insult the chinese people. After all this im so happy about the spanish basketball team photo! THANKS PAU GASOL!

    USA woman competed without 2 of there main stars and our girls or of age and actally have a womans body hips,butt ect. I know you only got a silver but in my eyes you girls got the gold

  149. amanda says:

    this is such ****. they win gold breaking the rules. and none of the judges will bring it up because theyre probably scared that the chinese government wont let them out of the country or theyll get killed

  150. TeamAmerica says:

    I would just like to say to all the people who are saying that it doesn’t make a difference if the Chinese girls are underage, I’d like to tell you that it actually DOES make a difference.

    I took gymnastics for 2 years, and i learned that underage girls fly faster and longer through the air, are smaller so their more likely not to go out of bounds, and weigh less so they can balance more easily.

    You’re all saying that just because America has had cheaters before, it justifies China having cheaters. Well, HELLO, what’s wrong with you people? America actually owned up to their wrongs and turned in their medals. Why can’t china be as mature as us and do the same? This just shows that America is more mature and stronger than China, and if ANYONE disagree’s, move the hell out of the U.S.A. and go to China :)

  151. TeamAmerica says:

    and to agree with Camerin, USA is deffinatly Number One in my eyes, and should be in every other American’s eyes as well.

    GO TEAM AMERICA!!

  152. Cyrano says:

    Just read this article (http://ap.google.com/article/ALeqM5i0×9UJBzQoVxo1MCC90C2ihzkH8QD92ARRC84) that talks about the Chinese gymnasts being underaged. To summarize:

    1) Requirement is 16 years old.

    2) He Kexin – He’s birthdate is listed as Jan. 1, 1994 in the 2005, 2006 and 2007 registration lists found by the Associated Press. She is not found on the 2004 list. That would make her 14, but her id now says her birthday is Jan 1, 1992.

    3) Jiang Yuyuan – A list of competitors at a 2007 provincial competition shows Jiang with an Oct. 1, 1993, birthdate. Olympic passport? November 1st, 1991.

    4) Yang Yilin – According to the 2004, 2005 AND 2006 registration lists previously posted on the Web site of the General Administration of Sport of China, her birthday is Aug. 26, 1993. That would make Yang only 15.
    2007 registration list, however, Yang’s birthday is changed to Aug. 26, 1992, making her eligible to compete.

    4) Sui Lu (Alternate) – The 2004 and 2005 registration lists include an athlete named Sui Lu who was born on April 1, 1993. In the 2006 and 2007 lists, however, the birthday is given as April 1, 1992, and the Chinese character for her first name “Lu” is different from the one used previously.

    Age falsification has been a problem in gymnastics for awhile, apparently:

    North Korea was barred from the 1993 world championships after FIG officials discovered that Kim Gwang Suk, the gold medalist on uneven bars in 1991, was listed as 15 for three years in a row (the age requirement as 15 back then).

    Romania admitted in 2002 that several gymnasts’ ages had been falsified, including Olympic medalists Gina Gogean and Alexandra Marinescu.

    Even China’s own Yang Yun, a double bronze medalist in Sydney, said during an interview aired on state broadcaster China Central Television that she was 14 in 2000.

    So basically, unless there just happened to be coincidental “inconsistencies” in the birth records with 4 members of their team that magically turned out in their favor, yeah, China is cheating on the age restriction.

  153. jeff says:

    you also have to remember that when you’re younger you have a different state of mind… they have a somewhat ‘fearless’ instinct and will attack a task that somebody of older age would be more cautious of… iono… they also did score china a little more graciously than that of the americans…

  154. jeff says:

    you also have to remember that anybody born in 1993 is also eligible… they have to be 16 in the olympic year… meaning that if you’re turning 16 this year… even after the olympics… technically you’re in the clear

  155. Go USA says:

    1) Is anybody really suprised by this? I wouldn’t be surprised if their original papers were also forged, so that they’re actually 12.

    2) The younger gymnasts are an advantage because the Chinese government chooses gymnasts to begin training at such a young age (3 years old) that their bodies would break down before they ever made it to the required age of 16.

    These games are as much about political posturing by the Chinese government as anything, and if a few papers need to be forged in order to win a medal or two for the greater glory of the Party, so be it. Shocking, perhaps, but surprising? Not really.

  156. Go USA says:

    Me again. Just pointing out that I am not the same poster as “goUSA” above. Should have been more careful about choosing my screen name.

  157. move says:

    Those of you who asked the Chinese people to leave this country, please, oh please, ask also the Chinese coaches on your American teamS (gymnastics, diving, volleyball, etc etc etc) to go back to China! I beg of you~

  158. Heidi says:

    If anyone can fake things like a basic age requirement at the Olympics, then that entire competition is a farce. Might as well let all the dopers in too. Same advantages. I say it’s a kickback issue. Someone is making money off these manipulations otherwise it would not be allowed. See if another country can sneak in under age gymnasts without the Chinese blocking it. Sad for the Olympics allowing these thinsg to happen. Another reason to investigate the Olympic officials in depth. I guarantee, China supporting lies to the world about their compliance with Olympic rules goes well with the lead tainted products they ship to the rest of the world supposedly by accident. Another oversight?

  159. HummerBro says:

    pls…could u guys study more about culture and food pyramid diff BEFORE settling a prejudgement. these girls are NOT grown up with T-BONES and MILK as daily meals. that’s a rice country there. actually girls from China are also amazed by American teen’s looking. ‘coz they look like in their 20s already. aint never seen a 13 or 17 years old Chinese girl carrying purse around hi school. what about that. that’s just cultural diff.

  160. dmp says:

    This is about cheating…and if this is true, CHINA HAS CHEATED and the team must be disqualified.

    There are other reports of the same women being listed a few years back in national competition as being 12 years old…now, two years later they are 16 and not 14?

    I feel bad for the olympians in question, these girls are being screwed by their country…they are not the cheaters, but should be disqualified.

    To respond to a few who said “who cares about the age, this is about sending your best”…I agree, but there IS AN AGE minimum set in place, and everyone else has to follow it too.

    This needs to be looked at in detail, and they need to lose the medals if found guilty.

  161. jackson says:

    this isnt just about what we see on TV….there are many sources in the gymnastics community stating that these girls are under age. They either were cheating before…posing as younger girls…or cheating now.

    Either way…they cheated, lets look into it and deal with it.

    This is no different than 16 year olds playing in the little league baseball world series–when they should be 13-14

  162. chris says:

    Check it out for yourself…

    Cheating is cheating…take away the medals.

    http://www.cbc.ca/olympics/gymnastics/story/2008/07/27/olympics-gymnastics-youth.html

  163. Greg says:

    Hahaha… T-Bones and Milk? You think US teenage girls eat t-bones and milk? More like salads and fruit… Everyone thinks these chinese olympic gymnasts where starved and taken from the farms and rice paddies. These girls have been fed and trained like a STAR from age 3!!! The government is not going to risk malnutrition on the 6 girls who were going to bring honor to the nation. These girls have undeveloped adult teeth and pelvic bones, a sure and scientifically tested way to determine age. A teen should have his adult teeth (ALL OF THEM) by 12 yrs old (maybe 14) if they were malnurtured, which i highly doubt they were, since you dont malnurture an OLYMPIC athlete if you want him to compete.

  164. john says:

    are you serious? experience doesn’t count for a whole lot in gymnasts. Do you know a lot of 30-year old world qualifiers.

    Her smaller frame helps, and believe that she has plenty of experience, since she was likely taken from her family at a very young age and put through nothing but training since.

  165. Greg says:

    Its official… these girls arent 16.

    I just checked my magic 8 ball.

  166. Irish Whisky says:

    Whoever said Phelps was a cheater, I hate to say your wrong. He gets tested after every swim he competes in. It is possible to get away with it cheating the test a few times, but after being tested for all his prelim, semi and final swims there is no way you can fool the system that many times. Any one that know even a little about drug testing would know this.

    Secondly it does pain me to see the USA lose like they did, anyone that watchedthe USA would have seen that you still had a chance to beat the Chinese if you didnt have those few misteps in the routines. I actually applaud the USA beacause they did things fairly and still came close to beating the chinese who were cheating.

    Also it is very clear that Deng Linlin is missing a baby tooth, it is impossible for someone to be at age 16 and not have all of thier adult teeth in. China should be stripped of thier medals.

  167. bill says:

    the answer is clear. It isn’t about age limits. Its about needing to start doing what is necessary to win.

    The U.S. should immediatly begin a program of taking young children from their parents at the age of three, grow them in a lab for 10 years with intense training and copius amounts of drugs, and then lie about their ages. The Chinese can do it, why can’t we?

    our free market training and doping just isn’t good enough. We can’t expect our atheletes to fake their own passports and mass produce their own drugs?

  168. pip says:

    a few years back they took away a snowboarders medal because he smoked pot! what are the enhancing effects of marijuana? nothing!

    Now i find it hard to beleive that they are not going to look further into their ages because that DOES have an effect on winning!

  169. HummerBro says:

    bone density tests would be an idea. arent they carried out before the games?

    i was wondering why Cubans r good @ volleyball, Argentina&Brazil’s soccer, Romanian/Russian/Bulgarians’s @ gymnastics and China @ diving. diet factors must be a big hit

  170. Chris, London says:

    She’s still missing her baby teeth. lol.

    Come on. 16?

    And its not about the fairness. Its about the rules. I dont think anyone under 15 should be put in the olympics, even if they are the best in the world. It just isn’t right to put children in that position.

  171. HummerBro says:

    btw, i love springboard diving and never missed a game since Barcelona 92. however, was amazed by team U.S.A. this time—entry techniques and ways to suppress the dome of water. mystery solved after 30 secs, saw a Chinese coach standing at back. China is exporting everything

  172. greatphildead says:

    WAAAAAAHHH!!! im sooo sick and tired of hearing they cheated or their not 16 – they distracted the routine of the usa gymnast!! Get over it– THE CHINESE ROUTINES AND PERFORMANCE WERE WAYYYYYY BETTER THAN THE USA AND THEY BEAT EM AND THEY WON AND DESERVE THE GOLD AND QUIT C RYIN!!!! I THOUGHT THE OLYMPICS WERE SUPPOSED TO BE ABOUT UNITY??? BUT IT SEEMS LIKE THESE DAYS THEY ARE ALL ABOUT IM BETTER , WE’RE BETTER, THEY CHEATED. THEIR TOO YOUNG- JESUS !! ITS THE OLYMPICS PEOPLE TAKE SOME PRIDE IN THE FACT THAT YOU ARE EVEN THERE REPRESENTING YOUR COUNTRY IN A HISTORIC EVENT AT ALL!! IM ALSO SICK OF THE THE REPORTERS ON TV ESPECIALLY THE NETWORK ONES FOR THE OLYMPIC COVERAGE- ITS ALL BIASED TOWARD THE USA AND ONLY SHOWING EVENTS WHEWRE THEY HAVWE THE POTENTIAL TO WIN A GOLD-
    I EVEN SAW A REPORTER ON NBC THIS MORNING INTERV IEW A CHINESE REPRESENTATIVE SAYING SO AS YOU KOW THE CHINESE HAVE MORE GOLD THAN THE USA BUT THE USA HAVE MORE MEDALS IN HISTORY TOTALS – SO ARENT THESE OLYMPICS PRETTY MUCH JUST BETWEEN THE CHINESE AND THE USA?? ANSWER: NOOOOOO!!! ITS THE OLYMPICS AND ITS A COMPETITION UNIFYING ALL THE COUNTRIES INTHE WORLD TO COMPETE IN ATHLETIC EVENTS- IN GOOD SPORTSMANSHIP AND FRIENDLY COMPETITION- I THINK EVERYONE NEEDS TO BE REMINDED OF WHAT AND WHY AND HOW THE OLYMPICS STARTED AND WHAT THEY REALLY STAND FOR!!!! SELFISH EGOTISTIC IDIOTS – ALL OF YOU SHOULD BE ASHAMED!!

  173. Chris, London says:

    greatphildead, Caps are not your friend.

    you are right when you say that the Chinese were clearly better. But why do they get a pass when other nations do not. “North Korea was barred from the 1993 world championships after FIG officials discovered that North Korea’s 1991 gold medalist was listed as 15 for three years in a row.”

    But China is a major economic power, so they don’t have to obey?

  174. smarter says:

    Blog author is a joke. Elliot Back is afraid to examine truth. Stupid Elliot Back comment: “The New York Times should seriously consider reviewing their policy of demonizing China before the 2008 Summer Olympic Games.” Demonizing=Not a real word. Elliot Back=Unpaid by intelligence, only by ad sales. HA. Policy? No. Seeking truth amongst an authoritarian and secretive government with history of supporting innocent death and lacking freedom of religion = Free press. All free countries on Earth will win the war against Elliot Back.

  175. Go USA says:

    Dear greatphildead,

    Your post was not exactly cogently argued, but let me reply.

    You suggest that only the quality of performance counts. I disagree. Other factors do matter. For example, the best performances (in terms of fast running times, high jumps, etc.) come from doped athletes, but their scores are not allowed, in order to protect athlete health and to preserve the purity of natural athleticism. I agree that the Chinese gymnasts performed better during the competition, but there is an additional requirement that they be of age. It is this last point that deserves investigation, in my opinion.

  176. Chris, London says:

    also, the team that should be most upset is not the US, but the 4th place Russians, who should recieve a bronze medal when China is disqualified.

  177. Michael C says:

    and i guess michael phelps absolutely dominating the competition without losing a breath is not suspicious.PSH! you American’s are always like this when you lose you complain. michael Phelps is killing the competition but nobody is saying a thing! that this guy may be taking perfomance enhancing drugs.
    “its so obvious these girls are not over 16″
    “its so obvious that michael phelps has to be taking something”
    of the two only the chinese girls are being talked about the most cuz they BEAT the US. not a lick said about michael phelps demolishing the competition each day and looking like he did day one of the competition. EF that you american’s. clearly you guys are trying to come up with anything to discharge the chinese beating you guys.

    But i really don’t care about any of this until its proven other wise. I’m enjoying seeing in awe of how michael phelps is amazing and how the chinese were in gymnastics. Just enjoy the Olympics you ppl. if something fishy is going on it’ll come out, when it does THEN you may start your conversations.

  178. whatever says:

    to greatphildead:
    why are you reading these blogs if you are so sick of hearing about this stuff? and let me also remind you that the television is catering to america because we are americans. im sure other countries are catering to their events. and furthermore noone is disputing that the chinese dont have great gymnasts and werent better…just that they cheated..unity does not come through deceit!!

  179. HummerBro says:

    greatphildead. u r rite. China definitely has better trainings and routines. but rules are rules. detates wont hurt the true champ.

    who really deserve a slap is someone that wrote sth like this: “The Chinese government is working feverishly to present a positive image of an open, friendly, progressive nation. But visa restrictions, toxic air pollution, freedom of the press issues and a problem-filled torch relay have presented a far different image to the world.”

    canadians really suck

  180. Chris, London says:

    Michael C, you’re pretty much right. and i am a firm believer that if you are at the olympics, you are more than likely on drugs anyway. lol. Seriously, what percentage of all olympians take drugs. honestly? 75%? higher?

    But i will never come down on any athlete unless there is substantial eveidence. So lets not compare the who/what may be on drugs just because they did something good, to a 16 year old girl who still has baby teeth and until this year, always had her birth date listed as 1994. Then, in January, it magically changed to 1992.

    Americans have cause to be upset.

  181. YouDumbAmericanese says:

    Get over it you dumb americanese. There’s a 20-year old on the team, and I wonder why they picked her over many 15 year old girls. Well, it happen to be she’s the best. The top 3 on the man team are of age 27, 28, and 29. Go figure that out. They prob should’ve picked 3 of age 12, 13, and 14 and would win by even bigger margin. You lost, just get over it. The US girls performed well except for 2 untimely mistakes.

    Btw, younger, smaller == better rotating, easy lifting??? get real. It requires strength and other physical abilities a lot too. Those physical abilities grow w/ your age to a certain point. Do you know the physical abilities peak at age 15?

    I remember one time of accusing china’s diving team of doping. Yeah right, that helps a lot in their rotating.

  182. paul says:

    Americanese? lol.

    how does it feel watching all the events in China announed in English?

  183. ok says:

    20 year old on the team?? Could have fooled me!!

  184. rocker says:

    americanese, is that like Chinans?

  185. pip says:

    we can all sit here and debate about this but nothing will change unless they can prove that these girls were under age. can you tell someones actual age by looking at them? i know i cant tell when their exact birthday is. let the ppl in charge of investigating these issues take care of it. if they find the allogations to be true, then strip them of their medal. but if not, get over it. there are plenty of ppl in the world that get away with MURDER! i dont see ppl as worried about getting that justice. i mean…. hell OJ got off. lol

  186. lol says:

    how does it feel watching all the events in China announed in English? dude asking this has got some serious problem

    how does it feel watching all the events in China announed in French, then English, Chinese?

    Honor of Olympia , then common practice, then courtesy of the host.

  187. move says:

    quote “Americanese? lol.

    how does it feel watching all the events in China announed in English?”

    That’s ’cause you dumbass don’t understand Chinese. Tell you what, an average Chinese student probably spells English better than adults in America. Take that!

  188. tt says:

    move,
    who would be more likely to cheat on the exam??

  189. paul says:

    very good, lol. Now ask yourself why English is common practice.

    West won *******.

  190. Calm Down rebuttal says:

    For Calm Down,

    I appreciate the calm rationalization and arguments to point about cultural differences and misunderstanding. However, I do think there are a few flaws in your points.

    Appearance: Agreed. “Looks” can be deceiving. My wife and I are both of Chinese-decent, but born and raised in the USA. We’re 36, but people still think we are in college or recent grads. However, even in a country with a billion people to choose from, not having full adult teeth at 15-16 years of age WITH a healthy diet is at the ends of any distribution curve.

    Diet: There are already many comments that suggest these Chinese athletes have likely gotten the best nutritional care, so I doubt malnutrition is an issue.

    Calendar: My mom and her sisters also get confused by their birthdays in the Gregorian calendar, but they are 60+ years old and were born while China was still using a lunar calendar. I do not believe that someone born in China after 1979 doesn’t know their birthday in the western/international calendar. Also, The IOC criteria is defined by dates and not convention, so being 1-year-old at birth holds no mustard. Finally, do we really beleive that the Chinese Government really doesn’t know the ages of their athletes which have been through a rigorous state selection system since childhood? [WARNING: gratuitous (racist) joke to follow: for people who are so good at math, why is a calendar so hard to figure out? God knows, we Americans can’t add.]

    Concepts of Fairness: Hmmm… Something tells me that the line jumping and movie-ripping may be a good analogy for certain cultural interactions here. Another analogy could be John McCain’s candidacy for presidency. Some experts have indicated that under US law, he is actually ineligible to be president because he was born in the Panama Canal. Of course, that strikes most Americans as silly, for someone whose whole family has served the country. That’s why he was born out of country in the first place. The difference here though is that McCain’s candidacy doesn’t seem to convey unfair advantage. The Chinese may very well view this competition as bringing their best to the table, but I view it as taking unfair advantage against other teams who abide by the rules.

    Of course, there isn’t any proof at the moment, but if it ever did come out, I believe the IOC must strip any medals that were won by violating rules that were effective at the time.

  191. pip says:

    its not about where they are from!!!! its about being fair and playing by the rules. they either followed them or they didn’t. as simple as that. and none of us are going to be able to the final desision.

  192. keith thomas says:

    Asians are known to be much smaller in stature.

    Sure they look young… but seriously with 1.3 BILLION (compared to USA of 300 million) in population??

    It’s really really not that surprising to find 6 16 year olds in China that look as young as they do.

  193. lol says:

    this is getting fun.

    who would be more likely to cheat on the whole nation and UN??

  194. move says:

    ‘casue English is easy. And you call ghetto English? guess the west just worships things that take no brains. easy, quick, dumb… done!

  195. yolande says:

    If anyone can fake things like a basic age requirement at the Olympics, then that entire competition is a farce. Might as well let all the dopers in too.

  196. YouDumbAmericanese says:

    Now you know how dumb and ignorant some of the americans are. They even get excited when they hear English is spoken outside USA.

    LOL.

    Go see the WORLD outside USA. Maybe you do not care, ’cause you have NBA, MLB, and NFL.

  197. Don't want to be fat says:

    So you wish every 16 years old as fat as Jordan Sparks ??? I guess that is the reason she is the American Idol. Oh, right, we, Amarican cannot be nice to some one is trying their best to be one of us. Okay, send all the junk food to China, make all the Chinese as fat as we are. Then will you be happy? No wonder a lot of American are mail order brides from Asian.

  198. YouDumbAmericanese says:

    Well, if the Americans want to see more boobs in the women’s gym competition, that’s understandable.

  199. lol says:

    1896-2008 u call that winning? we are in live streaming of time. China’s language has been around since when?

    and check out UN’s documents, by stating the same material and contents and which language version is the slimmest,meaning in most well developed stage of communication? China’s. fattest? English and some tribe language from Amazon’s, cant remember.

    u even lose more by calling others “*****”. get civilized, Paul

  200. move says:

    yep, and probably most of the “stars” on NBA, MLB, and NFL are uneducated! ’cause they can’t even speak proper English! sigh…

  201. pip says:

    americans get mail order brides so they have someone to clean their houses. hmm sounds kinda like slavery doesnt it

  202. lol says:

    YouDumbAmericanese said:
    on August 13th, 2008 at 2:40 pm

    Now you know how dumb and ignorant some of the americans are. They even get excited when they hear English is spoken outside USA.

    LOL.
    —————————————————————————————-

    just like my little Congolese friend when he first saw corn first day in school here. that was something

  203. move says:

    Now I thought more about it: The Chinese are always suspicious of age manipulation and the Americans are always suspicious of drug taking, hmm, I wonder which one is worse…. and which one gets busted more… hahaha

  204. Jazz says:

    Racism is wrong… lieing is wrong… but don’t blame the girls… they just do what they are told to do.

  205. tt says:

    age manipulation or drugs which one is better? are you kidding me, both are equally deceitful in competition!

  206. paul says:

    well, i’m going to go criticize my government. The chinese should too….oh wait, thats right.

    which is good, cuz according to China’s state run news station, they dont make mistakes.

    enjoy your robust per capita incomes.

  207. YouDumbAmericanese says:

    I am so proud of the US government. I still remember the famous quote:

    “I did not have *** with …”

    or Mr. Bush did not find any WMD in Iraqi while indeed created a pro-America government and controlled the crude oil resource over there.

    God damn, i have a brain ****. Can’t think of anything else now….

  208. lol says:

    go ahead criticize and see what difference it makes. i’ve seen 3 sides of the world, africa, america, asia. what about u Paul. how many in lower 48 so far? i’ve been an diplomatic advisor for Rep’s district campaign since 2000. what about u Paul. drop a line here when u finally make it to cspan.

    since u mentioned about China’s state run news. i m telling ya, april 2003, all my well known neighbor’s gathered at my house watching that “state run” channel on dishnetwork. they dont want miss the images u will never see on CNN and FOX

  209. lol says:

    by the way, they are all white and from deep South. just in case if it matters for ya, Paul.

  210. Calm Down says:

    Thanks, Calm Down rebuttal. I was waiting for someone rational to actually read what I wrote. Just to clarify a few things:

    Most people assumed that these star athletes are well nourished. Well nourished, yes, but also well controlled. Their food intake is well controlled as to what they can or cannot eat. It does not surprise me if the Chinese government purposefully feed these girls with only the bare essentials and skip out on calcium that build bones or other nutrients that help develop your puperty, or perhaps even growth inhibitors. I guess you can call that doping. But it is just as hard to prove as their age.

    I definitely agree that the Chinese government may not play fair. All I am saying is that without hard proof, no one can say that there is no posibility that they are 16 for sure. Like you said, they may be on the extreme end of a distribution. However, 3 out of 1.3 billion does give you a really tiny fraction that would fit that distribution.

    Like I said before, the purpose of holding the Olympics in Beijing is to let Westerners learn more about the cultural differences between the West and China. The reason why we are even having this discussion is because people are learning that the concept of fairness, honor, respect, and pride are perceived differently. With more discussions, the more people will learn from each other. This is great!

    On a side note, the legal age for men’s competition is 18. There is this Japanese gymnast that looks awefully young to me. He doesn’t even have a single facial hair at the age of 18! OMG! Hahaha.

    Oh, on the lip synch’ing issue, wasn’t it the US that invented that? Wasn’t some famous pop star caught lip synch’ing in a live broadcast show?

  211. paul says:

    YOU WERE A DIPLOMATIC ADVISER for a Domestic official campaign???!?!?! GASP, CHOKE, and other sounds of mass astonishment.

    And i have been to the UK, Ireland, France, Czech Republic, Germany and Austrailia, but the reason i haven’t been to China is because i don’t want any of the litinay of diseases they have and because i am not big on killing tibetans and silencing dissent.

    Just cuz they will never be Japan or South Korea is no reason to get upset.

    Enjoy your state run channel that won’t mention Phelps because god forbid the winningest olympian of all time be american.

  212. lol says:

    it’s not really an enjoyment to educate guys like u from grass root. i never bring up the IQ issues but it’s indeed an uneasy and ill-stated task here.

    the problem inside you is not denying others, but loss of orientation of yourself. u started with calling East “*****”, then felt shamed, then turned China to “litinay of diseases and killing tibetans “. u think ur thick hair is an evidence of perfect evolution? and hell i was shocked when i saw something called body deodorant in a Western(u prefer this way i guess) supermarket

    Tibet.? what do u know about Tibet? leave a personal email. u pay ur ticket i pay mine. let’s go Tibet for a tour and i’ll show you what the true Tibet is. and i speak fluent Tibetan, what about u, Paul? my wife is from one of the regions that was claimed by HH Dalai Lama’s Great Tibet Region. amazed huh? yeah, that’s how small the world is. leave ur email. i’ll show u the world. haha

  213. pip says:

    don’t people in china eat dogs? man’s best friend should not be eaten

  214. lol says:

    pip said:
    on August 13th, 2008 at 3:35 pm

    don’t people in china eat dogs? man’s best friend should not be eaten
    ————————————————————————————————

    it’s true. but not traditionally. it’s not everybody’s favorite like in South Korea. u can google it to find out. :)

  215. paul says:

    Look at south Korea and Japan, the west did win. They just accepted it. Don’t worry, China is well on its way.

    And i am sure you could show me Tibet, and all the interesting ways China has and is eroding their culture. But you’re right, Hooray for Seventeen Points!!!!

    Those dirty tibets and there heathen faith got exactly what it deserved. And how dare they resist? Even China’s 3 year old children athletes dont have the gual to resist when they are taken. Tibet needs to get with the program.

  216. pip says:

    wow thats not right at all. not only do eat mans best friend but the only eat the puppies from the age of 6-12 months old. and they beleive it will help their yang? wow, im glad i live in the USA and my dogs can run and play in the field like a pet should.

  217. Seronica says:

    I agree. They look way to young!

  218. lol says:

    calm down Paul. u said u’ve been europe(aus same here ethically) alot but u still dont know how to communicate. ‘coz that’s still a monistic world to you. u dont know it ‘coz u r in it and never jumped out. u communicate with asking more “why” instead of irrationally throwing out ur false statements piece by piece, when u r facing a new world. u dont know how naive u r looking at this moment.

    Phelp is the king. nobody refused admitting that and that’s the 1st thing i said with my colleage this morning. what r u trying to approve? i thought u were confident enough. sort out ur logic first.

    and look at ur statement about Tibetans and East or whatever u slandered, where are your respects to them when you are demanding ours to Phelps?

    Tibet culture is not destoried and if you are interested, go travel. Go ask how much money fed gov has been putting in annually to just keep Potala Palace in shape, and not talking about other thousand monasteries among 4 schools of Tibetand buddism.

    i wont comment on ur last paragraph. appearantly u r on drug already.

  219. Calm Down says:

    I can’t believe the conversation is turning into dog eating now.

    Men’s best friend is an American concept. I do believe cows are sacred in India. Atrocious American infidels! Hahaha.

    There is a reason why humans are on top of the food chain: because we can and we will. Just because someone chooses not to eat beef doesn’t necessary make him/her superior. It’s kind of like saying diamond is a girl’s best friend. Do you know how that concept is perceived elsewhere in the globe?

  220. paul says:

    so Tibet is better under China?

    funny how that works out.

  221. lol says:

    pip said:
    on August 13th, 2008 at 3:49 pm

    wow thats not right at all. not only do eat mans best friend but the only eat the puppies from the age of 6-12 months old. and they beleive it will help their yang? wow, im glad i live in the USA and my dogs can run and play in the field like a pet should.
    —————————————————————————————————

    i love pets, too, just like billions of other Asians. pet abuse is in China’s law but not carried out successfully. pretty much efforts were from grass root instead of gov. for example. if there is a restaurant selling dog meat, people will setup a protest and force the owner to stop selling, at least interrupt its business. Korea doesnt have such law, neither Japan. google is the answer :)

  222. lol says:

    Huggies wow! I’m a gymnast now!

  223. paul says:

    I love you all. kiss kiss. ok I am native Madagascar but I still love you all. We Team Earth needs to unite. Hooorahh!

  224. long Phat Dong says:

    Communism kicks ***!!!!

  225. paul says:

    yup, Commies’ red is my favorite in the rainbow. I m not *** by the way. I just wanna tell you guys so you guys won’t confuse. I m afraid u guy can’t tell that from my talkings so. I do have a rainbow license plate thou. Just loving it. What’s wrong being a ***, they are charming and peaceful. Even Barney would fail without purple. I just wanna explain to you guys so you guys know I am normal, and that……ok I am ***

  226. scott says:

    Americans don’t care that they lost. A lot don’t even follow the Olympics since the U.S.S.R. fell.

    like soccer today, Nigeria beat the U.S.
    nobody cares. Go Nigeria. Right on.

    But when the opponet clearly violates the rules, it is upsetting. Everyone is saying you can’t tell by looking which is true.

    But what Chinese news reports in 2004, 2005, and 2006 that clearly established He’s year of birth as 1994. Even the database of her training center listed 1994 until this year, when it was changed to 1992. It’s obvious what happened. The one year difference in how age is measured in some areas wouldn’t matter. And the state would know how old she is since they identified and trained her at a fairly young age.

    It is only upsetting when the enemy violates the rules. Johnson was America’s best in 2004, but didn’t go because she was 14. Thems the rules. thems the breaks.

  227. lol says:

    SHUT UP YOU ***!!! CHINA IS MY MOTHER SO SHUT YOUR DIRTY MOUTH!

    CHINA does what is necessary for her survival. and we are not sheep for going along with it.

  228. lol says:

    It is only upsetting when the enemy violates the rules.
    _______________________________________________________

    no needs to. if that’s the case, Gold will be handed to U.S. eventually. i think

  229. Michael says:

    Let’s ignore nationality and just say that if one team lied about the ages of their members in order to gain an advantage over ALL the other teams they should definitely be disqualified.

    Now, what can be done to determine if that is what happened? If the government the team represents is suspected of actually being involved in the lie then there is little that can be done right now. But seeing as how medals have been taken away years after events take place I would say that this issue should never be dropped by the IOC. Even if it takes a decade or more to uncover the truth they should still strip any cheating Olympian of their medals.

    If the IOC does sweep it under the rug then I for one will write off the Olympics as just another commercial enterprise with no more dignity than an eating contest.

  230. Babu says:

    We should end the olympics and every country stay where they are. No business ties and no conversation. That should make everything peaceful. 8 )

  231. Tom says:

    Can somebody explain to me if this is a new rule or something? I remember Dominique Moceanu was 14 at the 1996 Olympics when the U.S. won the Gold medal?

  232. Lara says:

    Well, from what I seen, there are several that are not the correct age. Here is why, my son is 12 and he still has several of his teeth that are not finished coming in on the upper sides. You can see the teeth gaps when he smiles. His dentist AND ortho. says that his teeth are coming in extremely slow , that most kids his age lost those long before, and he had to have some pulled to get them to come on in. So these are supposed to be already lost and coming back in BEFORE 12! His smile is just as some of these tiny Chinese girls. The big front 4 are huge but then the sides gap. So if you apply this these girls are about 9 or 10 due to how their teeth looked on TV. They looked just as my 12 yr olds teeth looked. He didnt have teeth till he was 1 and his is slow to fall out and be replaced!! They could prove it with a dentist evaluation.

  233. ........... says:

    Michael Phelps is breaking all time records like he installed pair of whale’s lungs. Somebody please pay attention to him. IOC should keep his sample urine for at least 3 year for a dope test in the future.

  234. Calm Down says:

    There are a few discrepancies I noticed from the various reports:

    Jiang Yuyuan’s birthday was reportedly falsified from 10.1.1993 to 11.1.1991. It is reported that this was done to make the girl go from 14 to 16. However, if you read the Olympics rule, all you need is to turn 16 in the calendar year. This means that if the Chinese government need to change the age, all they had to do was to change it to 11.1.1992. The risk of getting discovered is obviously a lot higher for 2 years change than a 1 year change. Now why would someone who wants to falsify a document make it easier for others to question?

    Another discrepancy: two of these three girls were competing at the world championships back in 2007 in Europe. They would need passports to go there. Obviously, their ages were verified back then. Obviously, their ages stayed consistent for a year. In fact, one of the passport presented was issued back in 2006. Now, why would you need to falsify someone’s passport two years in advance before even knowing she will be good enough to make the team 2 years later? A lot of things can happen in these two years. This means that in order for this lie to be foul proof, the Chinese government will have to falsify all of their promising top gymnasts two years in advance. This means that there are now at least dozens of disgruntled gymnasts who did not make the team had their age permanently modified by the government. One of them is due to be a whistle-blower.

    I am not saying the Chinese government didn’t cheat. I am just pointing out that there are flaws in the so-called proofs. And if they did lie, the truth will come out pretty soon after the Olympics games are finished, similar to how Yang Yun spoked out about her age after the 2000 games.

    Just be patient.

  235. REGIA says:

    CHINESE CHEATERS!!!!!! WHAT ELSE COULD YOU EXPECT FROM THE LAND OF CHEATERS, THEY CHEAT CHEAT AND CHEAT ABOUT EVERYTHING, YOU NAME IT….THEY DO IT…THEY CHEAT ….

  236. josh says:

    Calm Down,

    a reason they may have changed it by two years is because it might look suspicious if everyone on the team was 15, 16.

    What a coincidence that would be.

  237. Samantha says:

    ok…so people are arguing whether or not China cheated… ok they may be underage but there’s no way of proving that… but look at the facts… with all the US glory, their women’s gymnastics team still weren’t able to beat the Chinese team… seriously US lost because they killed themselves with not able to perform at their optimum level… so who’s to blame for their loss…only themselves… i think it’s safe to say that the Chinese team was just better that night… and about the underage thing… there is absolutely no way to determin someone’s age by looking at them… take a look at lebron james… how old is he?… just look at him… gosh and why do people say they hate china… do they know china?… do they know its people?… I can say I hate Europe for the way they cheated and lied and killed African people can’t I?… but I don’t cause it’s in the PAST… forget the past and focus on the future… and ok China cheats… does that mean all the other countries are perfect??…I dont think so… personally I think everyone’s just hating cause China’s becoming so powerful and they’re just trying to do anything they can (especially trash talk China) in order to deglorify what China’s done so far… seriously take a hard look at yourself…and tell me you haven’t cheated before…

  238. TMC says:

    Younger=smaller feet= larger relative width of P bars!

    There is no way in HELL those kids are 16 or over.

    Winners never cheat, cheaters never win!

  239. Alexandria says:

    What I noticed right away that told that a couple of the girls were indeed too young, was thier teeth. Two of the little girls still had missing side molars and really big front teeth where as the other older gilrs had normal more adult teeth, and the little ones were trying not to smile as much, it was obvious. I adopted a little baby girl from China, she is 14 now, but at 11 and 12 her teeth looked exactly like that. Yes, Asian girls look younger than our American gilrs, but it is still obvious that at least a couple of these girls were positively NOT 16. Even our adopted daughter, said wow mom, those girls are NOT 16. She is Asian and could tell before we ever said anything at all. Also remember that these parents there only have one child and if that child has a talent that the government can use, they capitalize on that child and the parents can go from dirt poor factory workers to living a life fit for royalty. They will go to great lenghts to hide the ages of these children.

  240. Anna says:

    I know they look real young AND they are short. but you people havent really looked at them very close!! One girl is missing her FRONT TEETH!!!!!! I’m ready for them to get their gold medal stripped. they are CHEATINGGG!!!!!!

  241. NTJedi says:

    It’s sad that despite multiple sources conflicting with the chinese passports of these female gymnasts neither the FIG( The federation that governs international gymnastics) or the IOC (The International Olympic Committee) have any interest investigating the issue. Anyone who even knows individuals which work for these organizations should voice concern.

    The Chinese cheating is so obviously clear it’s only sending a message to all the other countries that China needs to cheat to win.

  242. Katelynnn. says:

    Also, when the Chinese girls finished their floor routines the camera showed a few smiling… and missing teeth on the sides. Most girls have all their adult teeth around 12-14…

  243. Jimmie Hendrox says:

    Lol at the hating.
    Paul is quite a funny person. Quite not intellegent either.

    English is the official language of the IOC. That is why everything is also announced in english. English originated in England. Not USA.

    using DNA to find someone’s age? Lol….

    People having a rage need to get themselves checked. US team lost cause they screwd up… not because the Chinese team were owning them.

    Why is US team captain 20 years old? why didn’t they pick someone younger? OBviously, skillz and age are irrevelant.

    And all those people pointing fingers at china. Jockeys in america are starving their asses off. Just because they do it in China it means its bad? And if a similar atheletic practice occuring in a Democratic nation it becomes ok?

    Next time people form just partisan and opionated views and start going in a hysteria, they should do some reasearch.
    The girls in question have already participated in several international events…. yet there was no rage before…. until the US team lost its gold in Beijing.

    I think before we criticize others, we should look at ourselves and ask ourself. Are we fit to criticize others?

    And all the people crying out “FAKE SINGING, fAKE fireworks”
    if you were listning to the NBC Broadcasters, they said CLEARLY (as provided information by the Chinese, NO DECEPTION exept YOU not listening)that the fireworks you see on TV were CGI while the real ones were happening in China and not telvevised as they werere shot off in a NO FLY ZONE.

    The singing was not fake. IT was done by a Chinese girl. She may not have appeared on screen, but she was 100% Chinese and had a real voice.

    You know what fueled the cold war, vietnam war, and korean war? Mccarthy and liberal idiots like you. Now that all media outlets exept Fox are run by democrats, and if Obama gets elected, get ready for World War III. Once this hysteria caused by un-intellegent Americans start sweeping the country, the people who once stayed true to the good ol’ American Values will be driven out of their homes, and Obama will start a World War III by insisting and idiots like you beleiving that we need to liberate China from handling her own domestic affiars.

  244. anonymous says:

    Heh, today when the two Chinese women won gold and silver in the women’s butterfly, gold medalist was 19, the silver medalist was 17 and actually looked more their ages, and sure they can probably pass as younger as well, but they have the more mature look on their faces to look older than teeny boppers. If the silver medalist is 17, then yeah, within 1 year, the girls on the gymnastics team should have the more mature look as her… but that probably won’t happen.

  245. anonymous says:

    there is no further evidence to prove that china’s gymnasts are really underage.. only judging by their looks?? its no wonder they replaced the little girl who sung at the opening ceremony

  246. I read a simliar post just the other day by Sandra Kosineck but yours is much better.

  247. Tom says:

    asking once again..correct me if I’m wrong:

    Can somebody explain to me if this is a new rule or something? I remember Dominique Moceanu was 14 at the 1996 Olympics when the U.S. won the Gold medal?

  248. age change... says:

    Yes, it has changed…
    See http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Artistic_gymnastics

    “Currently, gymnasts must be at least sixteen years of age, or turning sixteen within the calendar year,the age limit had been 10 years on the year of competing up to 1998 when irish gymnast Sean Lynch broke his leg compete in the european qualifiers,after which the age limit was changed. to compete in senior-level events. For the current Olympic cycle, in order to compete in the 2008 Olympics, a gymnast must have a birthdate before January 1, 1993. There is no maximum age restriction.

    The one exception to this rule is the year before the Olympics, when gymnasts who are one year shy of the age requirement may compete as seniors at the World Championships and other meets. For instance, gymnasts born in 1988 were allowed to compete in senior events in 2003. This is permitted to allow nations to qualify to the Olympics with their best teams, and to give emerging gymnasts some experience in major competition before the Olympics.”

  249. Jean says:

    Asian women are all look younger that Americans and Europeans. Friend of mine, she’s Chinese, I remember when she was 19, this bus driver said she’s under 15, so asked her to pay child fare. Therefore, a 16 years old look like 14 or even younger is so normal.

  250. move says:

    great post, Jimmie Hendrox!

    I wonder why nobody questioned the Chinese women synchronize diving duo as to how young they looked. Oh, wait, because it was easy to call the Chinese gymnasts cheaters in order for US to go first place; but it would’ve involved calling the Chinease, the Australians, and the Mexicans cheaters in order for the US to be on the medal board for that category!

    Great strategy, team USA, keep trying!

  251. move says:

    And you people call the Chinese liars. Do you know how much you lie and fasify your news reports? Whoever said China lied about the 15,000 performers were volunteers, it was not true! Those performers are being paid a lot to train and perform, be them military or not. The real volunteers are people like 3rd level securities and ticket examiners. Look like American will go whatever length to twist words in order to make like the Chinese are lying. That’s similarly sad…

    Also, for those of you who keep on quoting the government forces three year olds to train, that’s only based on the so called “fact” reported in American news. I am Chinese, my father was once being selected and encouraged to join a national dancing group because they said he was talented. Being the only son in the family with four sisters, my grandmother did not want to let go of my dad thus refused, they left him alone, nobody “forced” anything onto anyone!

    And if the girls are “forced”, how come they showed so much pride when winning? They should have been so miserable that they couldn’t even smile to reveal their so called “baby teeth” for you to have anything to say about their age!

  252. Calm Down says:

    I have a cousin who is married and 31. She still has a full mouth of baby teeth. Doctors told her that she would never get grown-up teeth…

    Science is not exact. Finger print matching is the standard nowadays for forensic investigation. Yet, science predicts that every 5 billion people or so, there will be a repeat. Yet finger print matching is still heavily relied, because of the high unlikelihood of a exact match considering we only have 6 billion people on earth right now.

    Unlikely does not mean impossible. Just keep an open mind, it is not impossible to find a few girls who are 16 but look 12 in a nation of 1.3 billion people.

    I am more inclined to believe that the Chinese government purposefully stunted these girls’ growth than to believe that they falsified passports.

  253. relax says:

    People,

    Please realax. It is okay to make accusations, but keep in mind they haven’t been proven true. The truth comes out eventually so just let the IOC and FIG take care of the situation & it will be okay. There is no need to get so worked up over this because at the end of the day you are not a competitor and you have your own problems with your own life and in this country w. a devastating economy, unfit presidential candidates, and prostitution scandals involving government officials.

    Also, I think it would be greatly appreciate by most tolerating and classy people if the racial slurs are left out of these comments. People who use words like that will always say more about their own character than the people they try to bash.

  254. sighs says:

    there is no need to talk **** about every chinese individual as this does not apply to them or the government. this will be taken care of by the officials so you just live your life as a good citizen and everything will be okay. really people, calm down

  255. Calm Down says:

    Oh, for those of you wanting to see birth certificates…

    The system in China is not as established as in the US. Birth certificates are kept by the hospitals. Hospitals come and go. When they are gone, the documents are gone with them. If you are lucky to be born in a hospital that is still around today, you can get birth certificates. If not, you are out of luck. I was born in China and to this day, I have no way of producing a birth certificate. My wife is also born in China, in what you can call a glorified OBGYN clinic. She also cannot get a birth certificate.

    Age is tracked differently in China. In an urban area, you have neighborhood registries. Kids who are born in the area get registered there immediately after birth. In a rural area, where the only means of transportation is your own two feet and the closest registry is in a town miles away, you don’t register your kid until he/she is of school age.

    Adding to the complexity is the one-child policy. There are millions of Chinese babies born in violation of the one-child policy. Pregnant women escape into the deep jungles in order to avoid being forced into abortion. These babies may never get registered because there are heavy fines for violating this one-child policy. This is also the reason why even though the reported population of China is 1.3 billion, most Chinese believe the real number is around 1.4 billion.

    Considering that most of these star gymnasts are from these families, you can imagine the difficulties in tracking down any sort of official documentation on their “real” age. This is also a likely reason why there are conflicting internal reports of age. Only the athletes and their parents may truly know how old they really are.

  256. Mexigirl85 says:

    Interesting. Some of your comments and concern maybe vaild, but some of you are down right racist. Making a point about being fair does not need to include name calling. Doing so only distract from your point about being fair to you being racist. Well then again maybe you are. Look i went to school where half the schools population were ASIAN (not necessarily chinese) and i have friends till this day 23 years old and barely weigh 100lb and are about 5 ft tall.
    So what is your point stating that they LOOK young? Asians in general have always looked young, been short, and yes the regular stereotypes of having no chest or no butt at ANY age which americans have pointed out. Yet those are the SAME stereotypes now that you are saying dictates that they are young? Someone above commented (in which i agree) some asians are born at home and a birth date is rarely asked/used until they need to be enrolled into school. If they are cheating, like many americans have, the IOC will take care of it like they have been doing so. Unless you also believe the IOC are “Chink supporters” too.

  257. josh says:

    the hypocracy of the chinese supporters is mind boggling.

    If this wasn’t the U.S. they cheated to beat, then Big bad China would be the bad guys.

    Russia lost out on a medal, What about them?

    What if Russia or another country wanted to send younger gymnasts but couldn’t cuz gasp, they followed the rules.

  258. IceMan says:

    Smartest thing to do is lift the age limits. If age limits do not protect the athletes then why have them. Just like when the olympics lifted the ban on pro players they should do the same here. One country’s best versus anothers.

    And… Shame on china for banning the little girl with crooked from singing and replacing her with a “cute” girl mime.

  259. sighs says:

    yes shame on china for everything and shame on america w. government officials having affairs and involving themselves in prostitution and the scandals in our own government.. bc america is just perfect

  260. Duggy says:

    I can’t believe you people come here and try and defend the Chinese for cheating! If you can’t take one look at a child and determine by body and facial charactersitics the age then you really have no reason coming here in the first place. Any level headed, educated individual can just look at these girls and determine that they are NOT 16 years of age, add the previous reports of dates of birth and i think it’s SAFE to say they did indeed cheat. Now does it matter the age? Does it matter that the American girls made mistakes and lost? Look at it this way, if the Chinese had to use girls of AGE that were not as good as the underaged girls then the Americans would have won the gold medal due to the small points difference. China cheated and should be punished for it plain and simple.

  261. Calm Down says:

    Ignorance is bliss, huh?

    There is a difference between having attended schools and being educated. Some obviously belong to the former.

  262. mclovin says:

    China is so obsessed with how they look to the world that they are willing to do absolutly ANYTHING to make thierselves look better…yes this does include cheating!Who are these people kidding do they think they are fooling anyone?PLEASE…they seem to think all of us are idiots!

  263. somersault12 says:

    I don’t think this has anything to do with US being sore losers. This was already an issue way before the start of the olympics. However, I DO wonder if the americans had won the team gold if so many people are starting to point fingers at the Chinese. But anyways, what it comes down to is if the IOC set the rules then IOC NEEDs to enforce it. This has always been a problem with them. If anyone wants to point fingers, point it at IOC.

    And to the “demonizing” China comment – It wouldn’t have mattered if this was china, russia, romania, france, united states…whatever country, DOESN’T MATTER. There is an age limit. If there is evidence showing underage gymnasts, it needs to be investigated. Its unfair to countries who actually follow the rules and don’t send their 14yr old protege to the olympics.

    And I don’t know where Elliot got his information from, but its known that being younger in the sport of gymnastics is a clear cut ADVANTAGE. The older you are, the harder it gets. That’s why most women gymnasts quit competing by the age of 25.

    Btw, there HAVE been other gymnasts in the past (from what I know for sure, romania and china) who actually admitted they WERE underage at time of competition. And guess what? They won medals.

  264. sharon says:

    Of course these girls are underage. Just look at them. We have always known that the Chinese and Russians cheat. Who is surprised? Oh yes, and in an officially controlled press, the data is wrong but the passports are correct. Please!

  265. Big Daddy Ray says:

    Xu Hung of China is looking forward to the 2012 Olympics. At just barely 12 years of age, she is looking forward to leaving her mark on the world as one of Henan province’s premier gymnasts.

    Though it is true, that she appears younger than 12, with the stroller and her ever present pacifier, Chinese representatives insist that she is legitimately 12. “Just look at these official papers,” says Yinbing Yu, Xu’s coach and spokesperson. “This is all the proof anyone needs to accept that Xu is 12.”

    During our interview with Yingbing, it was apparent that, by the smell of things, Xu had defecated in her undergarments, which looked suspiciously like a diaper.

    At only 7 pounds and 11 ounces, Xu is, perhaps, the tiniest gymnast in the world.

    We love you Xu and look forward to seeing you on the world stage in 2012.

  266. RayJ says:

    It’s clear that the wins for China will not go untarnished in the minds of other countries and their gymnastic competitors. If the issue is too politically hot to handle at this time, let them go away with their tarnished gold. I think the Chinese and the rest of the world will remember this Olympic Gymnastics competition as one involving deceit, especially if this current press continues and the IOC is prepared to deal effectively with this same issue in 2012. The history books may prove to be the undoing of the very thing China seems willing to claim at any cost.

  267. Ashley says:

    You can’t base someone’s age solely by a quick glance at their teeth.

    What is with the holier than thou attitude of Americans? Like U.S. athletes have never cheated before? Please, stop being such hypocrites.

    Maybe those Chinese girls just don’t get enough calcium? Many asians are lactose intolerant and don’t have a alot of milk in their diet just because of habits. Chinese people drink soy milk in the morning people.

    And about adopted daughters….SHE GREW UP WITH WHITE PEOPLE okay? She can’t call herself Chinese. But a white person growing up with Chinese parents can call himself a Chinese person. The culture and enviornment make a person..not the way they look.

    Does your child even know mandarin? Just because someone is asian doesn’t mean they automatically know the customs and traditions of their race. Jeez….I know plenty of Chinese people who can tell ABC’s apart from a real Chinese person. They are different.

    Your enviornment makes you who you are..not your genes.

  268. Avlevnna says:

    The government issues birth permits and birth certificates OF COUSE THEY COULD ALTER PASSPORTS. I know asian people are naturally small people but Damn…that little girl need to be tested for steroids cause if she is 16 something is stunting her growth.

  269. David King says:

    Steroids cause growth and don’t stunt growth. That is why bodybuilders use them.
    There are many websites the have posted the true age of the 2 girls in question and the are definitely cheating and that is just wrong. I hope they end up getting their medals stripped. I don’t have any ill intent towards China for doing this. If the USA was using underage girls I would want their medals revoked too.

  270. Jim says:

    The balance beam looks like the width of a board walk for China and the floor is a football field , I blame it on all the rice crispy treats they eat.

  271. Nancy says:

    China is going way overboard trying to impress the world. The singing at the opening ceremony was just plain mean (think of the singer’s self-confidence, she probably thinks she’s ugly now).

    Cheating is, well, cheating. China may have gotten that gold medal but deep inside our hearts we all know that USA won it fair and square. It’s obvious that the government made those fake passports with a fake birthday to show that they are over 16. Come on, who’s going to believe that? At first I never knew about this rule and I thought that people that young could participate (one of them looked like 10 to me o.O). But now I know that China’s just plain cheating and not following the rules. While it’s true that Asians are normally tinier, their face and body all look really young. I’d like to see China banned from all future Olympic games.

    I do have a question, though: how come the olympic officials never noticed this thing? they shouldn’t have approved it…

    • Anon says:

      Nancy…I agree with everything you’ve said except the last part.

      I know they cheated and America would’ve won BUT it’s not right to be racist and call them names. We need to have respect for other countries.

      I surely DON’T want to see the Chinese banned. That would be SO unfair. Olympics is a nation-wide competition,right? If we disregard China then it becomes unfair. China is a country and therefore is allowed to participate in future games.

  272. The Ajarn says:

    I think China should keep their Gold. If their 12 year olds can kick a 16 year old’s a55 then boo-ya biotches! Go cry home. :) :) :) :) :) :)

    Besides, keeps them out of Apple’s iPod factories…

    Oh yeah, and those fireworks during the opening ceremony were fake. It was all just some holographic 4th dimension illusion.

    And the person who lit the cauldron wasn’t a real person… it was a cleverly disguised panda. I mean who COULDN’T see that it was a flying panda??!?

  273. Andy says:

    For me this isn’t about China’s nationalist politics, because there are more than enough arguments that the US practices this just as heavily. But the games are set up with rules for a reason, and the proven breaking of rules should result in disqualification or at the very least a penalty. Although there are exceptions, as a general rule younger bodies tend to be lighter and more limber, two huge advantages in gymnastics. On a whole Asians tend to be naturally more petite, but that doesn’t give them the right to go breaking rules everyone else is following Not to mention, these girls should be given some semblance of childhood before becoming a potential national hero. There’s no excuse for rule-breaking, especially when you’re trying to go for the whole “positive image” thing.

  274. AModestProposal says:

    Clearly there is only one solution in checking if those Chinese gymnasts are under-aged. We must pry off teeth from those teeny tiny asian mouths, and if we shall find no roots for those teeth we can finalize our conclusions. I say teeth, not tooth because certainly a cheating power like china can magically develop a method to give their gymnasts implants for one or two incisors or maybe a molar, we must pull them all out to find be truly certain. Some of you may wonder why not use an x-ray. well my friend, you haven’t thought well enough through the veil of deceit and lies of our oriental fiend. OBVIOUSLY they can fake x-rays dear friend… we must send in Karolyi or any other true AMERICAN to witness the teeth pulling of these “half-people.”

    To those who don’t notice… this is sarcasm. bs proof in the chinese demeanors such as “giggling like school girls” and small baby teeth that are clearly crooked and not small… II’m more concerned about the proof that people on here are claiming they have…. Think about it this way… Shawn is a tiny US gymnast and their could be tinier cept there’s only a handful of those. US population is much smaller than China’s population, statistically there would be MORE of those “smaller than shawn” people. The degree of how healthy a small person can be is something i’ve never seen data for and would be difficult to study simply because there’s genetics and whatnot that come into play. Point being, it’s not suspicious to have chinese gymnasts that are smaller than shawn.

    NY Times claims they uncovered a site with her b-day on it, i have a hard time relying on sites for reliable information. My parents dont’ even know their real birthdays and they didn’t even grow up in the countryside, not surprising if some chinese don’t know theirs either…but i digress.

    As for younger gymnasts being more badass and fearless… i find that bs. The commentators on NBC for the team gymnastics pointed out that you need real confidence in yourself in order to spin on one foot on the balance beam. None of the small asian girls seemed confident and fearless cause they fucked up that part pretty bad while the US gymnast(s) nailed that move.

  275. Therese Becker says:

    I was a gymnast during Nadia’s years and I am angered by the fact that these Chinese girls are obviously not 16. The oldest girl may be about 16 but the smaller gymnasts are obviously NOT even close.

    I do think they preformed the best, however, they did not do it fairly so they should not be awarded the metals for that reason.

    If they had to put a team together of 16+ aged athletes it may be a totally different outcome. We will never know!

    As Bela pointed out they are under less stress.

    Also no one has pointed out that when a 16 yr. old hits puberty the body goes through drastic changes making it much more difficult to perform.
    Our weight, height, and flexibility all change to a great degree. A young child of 10 or 11 yrs. old are not faced with these problems.

    Even the amount of floor space is affected that you perform on.
    A little girl will use 2/3’s the space needed to perform a routine on and are less likely to step out of bounds.

    Has no one else noticed that the smallest gymnast is missing a canine tooth? Only 10 to 11 yr. olds lose these teeth. How many 16 yr. olds lose teeth? NONE!

    Bob Costas seemed very uncomfortable addressing the issue. Why is the US media underplaying this, when it could be the biggest story of the Olympics next to Michael Phelps wins?

    If any of our reporters did research and followed up on it, the American girls would feel better about their accomplishments. Silver is wonderful, but you can see the disappointment in their body language.

    As a former gymnast that worked hard to get where I did I am so angered over this issue… it makes me want to stop watching the Olympics.

    We have reasons for rules.

    The Olympics should be held to the highest of standards, and be checked to make sure all athletes and countries are complying.

    If we let people slide on these standards it really shouldn’t be called the Olympics.

  276. Calm Down says:

    I found it fascinating that people here keep stating that China is “obviously” cheating. Based on what? Websites? NY Times Reports? Just a few years ago, a NY Times reporter was found to be fabricating stories. Websites are prepared by webmasters who don’t work in a formal ministry. How often have you seen your local DMV or IRS mess up your SS# or your name? How many people have regained their innocence after wrongful interpretation of forensic evidence put them behind bars? People, where is the critical thinking?

    Did you know that there are people who are born with 6 fingers on one hand? Have you not seen African 8-year olds running around while they were actually 12 years old? What those of you are proclaiming as “obviously” false are scientifically proven to be possible. The statistical term for it is “outlyer.”

    Just look at Michael Phelps. He is 6′4″ tall but has leg length of a 6′ person while having a wingspan of a 6′8″ person. Have you seen him flap his arms before each race? What flexibility! He must be Mr. Fantastic! The secretive US government OBVIOUSLY genetically enhanced him! That is the only reason why he is inhumanly faster than anyone on earth in past or present.

    What about phrases like:
    “We know for a fact that there is WMD in Iraq.”
    “I did not have *** with [you know who]”
    “I have never doped.”

    Before you help portray all of us Americans as hypocrits, please, use your head. China has shown a great deal of hospitality for our athletes, cheering them on as if they are just at home. Why can’t we be more grateful guests? What happened to sportsmenship?

  277. Angela says:

    It has already been a known fact through investigation that China has been following these athletes for years whether in school or in other competitons, The articles have already been found where China admits on their own news stations and in newspaper articles that these gymnists were 13 last year. Now all of a sudden they come up with a passport showing the age of 16. I think the various news articles from the past year claiming these youngsters are 13 (14 now) is probably correct, I wouldn’t see in china’s newspapers making so many of the same mistakes in one year. The extra 2 years means all the difference in the world, the body loses flexibility with each year as we get older so a younger child would have a better advantage.

  278. TeamAmerica says:

    This is to MOVE

    I really liked seeing Nastia Liukin and Shawn Johnson beat the underage lieing chinese gymnasts. it was good to see the best gymnists in the world win the gold and the silver =]

    and i’m sure the chinese swimmers would be underage, except for the fact that their aren’t any =] and even if their were, they’d lose big time to Michael Phelps =]

  279. Michael says:

    hey hmmmmm – It’s 2008 ( think all of the logo – Bejing 2008) so 50 years ago was 1958. The “cultural revolution” occured in like 1967-1968 which like 40 years ago dude.
    Now what was the “cultural revolution’ – oh that was the greatest murderer in the history of Earth ( MAO) letting mobs attack and persecute random people/

    And whose portrait decorates all of China – Murderin’ Mao.

    The denial state of the Chinese culture is and remains astounding – even the Soviets trashed out Stalin after his death.

    You lack of knowledge astounds – dude.

  280. David B. says:

    This is complete bullshit. They NEED to be disqualified!!! Fake fireworks, Fake singers, Fake Medals(all lead) and now fake gymists(being non qualified for WORLD COMPETITION) They knew all this. If anything the Asian culture is KNOWN for their attention to detail. EVERY detail was/is deliberate. To tolerate it endorses it and send a message WORLDWIDE. Authoritarian/Communists countries CONTROL EVERY ASPECT of their athletes. All this is government, its not directly about these pre pubescent girls, and they are SPITTING IN THE FACE of all other nations who came to complete.

  281. Tela says:

    What abou all the other young women that are in the olympics following the rules? The years of hard work they put in? What does the U.S. gymnastics team think when there are girls right in thier faces cheating and winning?
    I don’t blame the little Chinese girls at all, I am sure they do what they are told and don’t have a say in anything but the Chinese government should pay BIG TIME for this! What a joke, my son and I watched them on TV and we couldn’t believe anyone would think a couple of these girls could be over 12 if that!
    I have Asian relatives and still they blossom like anyone else at a certain age.
    How awful to rub thier cheating in the face of all the other countries!
    China is allowed to host the games and then they think the rest of the world will turn a blind eye to something that is an obvious sham.

  282. JennaLynne says:

    Let me start with this. I’m not American. So I;m not complaining on the behalf of the poor american gymnasts who messed up. because they did and the chinese team WAS better. That being said: however…
    As a figure skater I was also trained in the type of gymnanistics that these women partake in – and I can assure you that being prepubescent has pretty distinct advantages.
    1) there is a set speace between the uneven bars and i know aisan women are shorter … but not that short. This fact allows them to move between the bars without having to bend their bodies. Even American Gymnast Shawn Johnson (who is rather short especially by American standards) has to bend slightly to fit between them. And i think she is only 16.
    2) Being young (13, 14) ect allows them a certian flexiblity fearlessness that older athletes just dont have.

    Due to all these things – the younger athletes are the better ones, at least in this sport. Perhaps the answer is to get rid of the age requirement. Or let everyone cheat. But either way, cheating is still wrong, and they did cheat. Doesnt matter which way you try to swing it.

    Oh and PS, just for the record, Michael Phelps is drug tested right after every event. So unless hes found some miracle stimluant…. hes not cheating…

  283. Frank H says:

    the chinese are cheaters pure and simple.

  284. Deanne says:

    I think the most important thing we are missing is the human rights part. These poor girls are being ripped from their families and age 3 and being put through the rigors of everyday training it is just insane. The world should not stand for this. I have a 2 1/2 yr old and can not imagine the government coming and taking him away from me and I only get to see him once a year. This is the BIGGEST problem that I see.

    Oh Yeah.. atleast one of the girls were missing teeth. I don’t know of any 16 year old that does not have all their permanent teeth regardless of ethnicity.

  285. JennaLynne says:

    The tooth thing isnt a clear indicator – because she could’ve fallen on the beam and knocked it out – or she could be like me – her adult teeth could be turned the wrong way, my baby tooth didnt fall out til i was 17.

    The human rights issue is the whole reason the age limit was placed in the first place. IOC hoped that by requiring the girls to be older to comete, the training would be less harsh while they were younger. sadly it seems like the age limit has had the oppsiote effect and has only given the governments extra time to train. Unless they cheat and enter them underage.

    Personally i feel that if a 14y.o. gymnast is the best, then they should be allowed to compete, but it only has to be fair by allowing if perhaps a 14 y.o. american was better than shawn johnson lets say – then the best should compete against the best. Not the best competing against 2nd best because of a dumb rule that isn’t doing what its intended to do…

  286. Vid says:

    by right, the younger you are, you’re generally way more flexible and lighter given you much advantage in gymnastic.

    ignore their facial features. the figure alone reveals her age. her hips, waist and chest tells me her puberty is still at stage 1 or less!

    if she got the potential to get gold, yes. but its really unfair to those who abide by the rules and trained so hard just to lose to someone who played dirty?

    anyway, its china. how difficult would it be to forge a passport stating you’re 16 or more? its as easy as killing an ant. and thats their culture, its in their blood.

  287. JennaLynne says:

    Well said Vid. I dont know this for sure, but lets say there was a gymnast in America who had the potential to beat this girl. But she didnt enter because she was only 14.
    This is why the Americans are so peeved. Its not because she wasnt good, plain and simply, they were cheated.

    I have to wonder though…the US atheltes are always accused of taking preformance enhancing drugs. It gives them (supposedly) a certian edge… so i gotta ask… how is this different? Other than the fact that it seems to be government sanctioned?

  288. OZ says:

    Now there is a young girl who may never walk again. She was preparing for the closing ceremony when the stage collapsed. When and how is that going to go down with Chinese media? along with doping and age fixing, what about all the big Corp. America filming the add campaigns to promote the great Chinese.

  289. JennaLynne says:

    mhmm, like the coke cans in chinese. wtf is that all about?

  290. CIndiee says:

    C’mon guys, let’s not get into racial and sociopolitical issues with this one…it’s the Olympics. It’s supposed to be games of goodwill and sportsmanship. In that vein, if there is an allegation of cheating, then it needs to be addressed and the outcome needs to be corrected if necessary. There are always investigations within the Olympics, both regarding outcomes and performance enhancements, etc. If they route out a problem with this particular team, whether the Chinese team performed at a higher level or not, it is still cheating if they knowingly entered underage athletes. In the end, CHEATING IS JUST CHEATING…it can’t really be justified in any way, shape or form. Personally, I hope they did not cheat, for a few reasons. First, I would like to think that the Chinese government would play fair at least in this arena. Second, the Chinese were a very gifted team and performed at a gold level standard. 3rd, if they lose their team medal, it goes to USA and there will always be the shadow of being the 2nd best team. Let me clarify that thought, I believe if this happens, the USA deserved gold because they are not only a phenom team, too, but should never have had to compete under comprimised conditions. But the “China really won” spectre will follow them, unfairly. So I hope that the right thing is done and that all parties acknowledge the fairness of whatever decision is made by the Olympics committee. On another note, the reason that younger gymnasts are better is because physically gymnasts are at their peak at younger adolescent ages, it’s just a physiological fact, before their long bones, vertebrae, etc. start to shift into a more mature physique as determined by the onset of menses. Even if some of the older girls are not menstruating due to low body fat, their body is still trying to shift into adult mode and grow, unlike younger pre-menses girls. That aside, another consideration for NOT having athletes younger than 16 in the Olympics is that it is probably CRUEL to train a child of younger ages in the same elite fashion as an older athlete. Say one of these Chinese girls really are 14…that’s sad…that means she has been training 14 hours or more a day for maybe the last 2-3 years and at least for the last year. I would like to see the Olympic age stay at least at 16 if for this reason alone. Especially in authoritarian states where there is a history of “indenturing” athletes into the state system at a very young age. Well, that’s my rant. Lets hope for a good, fair outcome that is accepted and acknowledged by all sides.

  291. Kristine says:

    I think it’s funny how people make it seem like it’s only Team USA and Team China competing in the Olympics. Theres other teams too you know, why do you always have to put your attention to those two teams? All these articles that people put out there are all about those two countries, how about the others?

    Team USA need to stop complaining and stop looking for every excuse to there lost. Let’s say if China did cheated about their age.. We all know China still had the better routine than the US for most part. Think about the difficulty level they had. I mean, don’t get me wrong, I’m american too! I’m cheering for Team USA as much as every american should’ve. But this is just getting out of hand and it’s ridiculous.

    I think us Americans definitely need to accept a silver/bronze medal without any whine!

  292. JOHN says:

    TO ALL WHO SAY WHAT DIFFERENCE DOESITMAKE WHTHER OR NOT CHINESE USE UNDERAGE GIRLS IN GYMNASTICS.
    (1) IT GIVES THEM AN ADVANTAGE. IF IT DIDN’T THEY WOULDN’T USE THEM
    (2) ALL OF THE COUNTRIES HAD TO SEND ONLY 16 OR OLDER GYMNASTS.
    (3) THERE ARE RULES REGARDING USING PERFORMANCE ENHANCING DRUGS. IF THE CHINESE OR ANY ATHETE GOT CAUGHT THEY WOULD BE DISQUALIFIED, AS THEY SHOULD.
    THE TEAM MEDAL SHOULD BEDQ’D ALONG WITH ALL OF THE INDIVIDUAL EVENTS & MOVE EVERYONE UP A NOTCH ON THE MEDAL STAND !!

  293. Jean Standish says:

    It is outrageous that the IOC is not investigating this controversy regarding the ages of the Chinese gymnasts. The IOC is is usually very stringent about enforcing the rules. So why not this time? Passports can be easily falsified, and China is notorious for playing fast and loose with the truth. The IOC must have an investigation to make these Olympics creditable.

  294. Mao Tse-Dung says:

    I’m so happy to see the IOC is re-investigating this shameful behavior by the cheating commie Chinese. From the very beginning this Olympics has been filled w/ falsehoods and lies…from the covering up of pollution during the selection to human rights cover-ups to the most recent allegations of underage gymnasts. We should not blame these innocent young girls, as they are forced into gymnastics from a very early age, with government officials measuring bone growth and other physical characteristics from the time these children are as young as four and five years old to determine which will be elite gymnasts. Instead we must blame the despicable communist leaders, starting with the slant-eyed ‘Paramount Leader’ himself, Hu Jintao. These ******** aim to control every aspect of people’s lives and carry out their authoritarian rule with vicious brutality toward anyone who dissents. The Chinese people need to wake up and throw off these oppressors; unfortunately, they have fallen prey to the government’s harsh limitations to intellectual freedom that is practically tantamount to mass thought control. It will be so hilarious if the chinks are stripped of their women’s gymnastics team gold, as they planned for so many years to win it. A finding by the IOC that shows China cheated would in fact be even sweeter than if the US had just won gold in the competition, as it will carry the extra punishment of shame and loss of ‘face’, a highly valued ideal in China. So let’s cross our fingers and hope for more evidence in this case that will allow the IOC to make a ruling to strip China of their medals– what a great way to end the ‘coming-out’ party of this rising nation, with a reminder that its leaders and the people who allow them to lead are still backward, authoritarian commies who have no regard for the rules of the Games. Stick to ping-pong and doing the white man’s laundry you slant-eyed rice eaters! Ching chong wing wong chinky chinky ding dong!!!!

  295. Shannon says:

    it is so stupid for China to do this, they couldn’t wait four more years to get the girl in the Olympics, were they that worried about getting beat on there home terf. They had obviously made fake passports and id’s and stuff. And why are they balming the NY Times for being right about those things saying it’s ok because having age is better, guess what’s better then age, playing by the rules, yeah! this is so stupid, the olympics should be about people playing games not people trying to win. let the medals go to they belong to-the people who play by the rules. that girl won gold on the uneven bars after tying with the girl from the USA. The USA deserves that medal.

  296. John_L says:

    Lets see.. China spends Billions to host the olympics, to show the world that they are a mature and responsible country.

    Then they go and CHEAT at the olympics, and lose all the Face they’ve gained on the world stage, showing the “true heart” of the culture. Not surprising, given the contaminated products, the environmental exploitation, the ruthless suppress of internet access, that China now, shows the real “criminal mind” of their leadership, with no ethics, no values and no face, that they could ROB kids of their medals by cheating.

    If they’d waited 4 years, they’d be ok, but “greed for gold” has exposed the true black heart, thick face of the criminals in charge. It’s just business as usual, except this time every bit of face bought by the games is now rotted meat in their rice bowl, and they are too thick to notice it as they slurp it down and wonder why everyone thinks they stink.

  297. Exploited says:

    China has been exploited by the rest of the world for so long. They are just trying to look like they are finally at the same level as the rest of the world. They are desperately grasping at an opportunity to prove themselves and show that they are not a 3rd world country anymore. The rest of the world has grossly ignored all rules while manufacturing products in China. China has been in deep poverty for decades and have had their people excessively exploited by large corporations from foreign nations. I would say that bending a few tiny rules in a game is insignificant compared to the atrocities that have been done in China by the rest of the world. Where were your shoes and clothes made? Who’s labor produced your ipod and plasma TV? The fact of the matter is that our lifestyle’s would not exist as they are if China did not have a liberal view on most rules. They have allowed us to ignore our own rules in their country to create merchandise and benefit financially. We have ourselves to blame for their disregard of most rules since we are the ones who have been disregarding environmental and human rights rules in their country for decades. Sure, they may have cheated in the Olympics but we have cheated them in Life. I think it’s about time that the Squirrel was allowed to have its nut. After all we have everything we could possibly want and live like kings thanks to their excessively cheap and severely exploited labor. For the record, I am very patriotic towards my country, the USA and I am not Asian. I just happen to be some one who has a logical brain, that’s all. This is not an issue of race but a cultural issue. A culture that we ourselves are in part responsible for creating. China has been molested by the rest of the world(Especially the USA) and that’s why they have the mind set that they do. They are like a beaten down, exploited younger sibling that’s trying to prove they are as good as their big brother who has had everything handed to them. If it turns out that China did cheat then that is sad for the US team and China(The government) deserves to have medals stripped. But the poor girls were just doing what they were told. They don’t deserve such a disgrace. Their parents and the iron fisted government most likely told them if not forced them to compete in the Olympics. Their skills were amazing regardless of their age and those poor young girls do not deserve to be humiliated. They have already most likely been enslaved by the Chinese gymnastics community and shouldn’t be subjected to anymore punishment in their young lives.

  298. Reality Hurts says:

    Really now, does it matter that the Chinese are underage? Is this really cheating for being too young? If anything it would make the American performance and the rest of the world for that matter, look that much worse, by getting beat by a little girl that just learned to walk.

  299. R to da izeL says:

    omg, wtf da US so worried bout da ages. They area just makin the US team look worse. Remember what they are complaining about. That the US team got beat by babies. Girls young of age beat the US team. Is the US proud of that? If not, then leave it alone!!!

  300. This is so obvious says:

    It’s pretty obvious these girls are under 16, just look at their body structure. Yes asian people are smaller then most other ethnicities but they still go through puberty like all the rest. Look at USA Haley Ishimatsu (ex gymnast turned diver). She is 15 right now and will turn 16 in the 08 calendar year. She is asian and she doesn’t look anything like the girls on the Chinese team. She is 4′ 11″ but doesn’t look like a little girl.

  301. Jen says:

    It is not that they are shorter or smaller: the Japanese team and Shawn Johnson are just as short, the Japanese just as small. They look younger in the face, less mature and they act like kids. My family has heights that run from 4′8″ to 6 ft in our women. You can tell their age more by how they act and look than from height and weight. At least one of those girls was as young as 10, the other two 14 at the most.

  302. Jen says:

    Flexibility and agility are lost with age, but the routines can tear up a body. No one would be ashamed to lose to a younger gymnast; those that suggest we should be needs to educate themselves on the sport instead of spending their time name calling.

  303. CHINA SUCKS says:

    I agree with everyone who believes that China is cheating! It’s so obvious that the girls are underaged! The IOC must be blind not to realize this! In addition, China probably also paid the idiot and greedy judges money to give their athletes higher scores! When the score was tied between Nastia Luikin and the other chinese brat, Nastia obviously should have won! But the stupid judges let the chinese girl win!!! IDIOTS! AMERICA ALL THE WAY! You guys are the TRUE and HONEST winners!

  304. Kelly says:

    The Chinese will do anything, and I mean ANYTHING to have their athletes win gold medals. Silver & Bronze medals are ok,but they will do anything to have their athletes win gold. $$$$$$.

  305. Think first before Judging says:

    Why is it always someone Non-Asian that finds this information? You know, if you’re talented you’re talented…

    The only reason an age cap is set is because the rest of the world have a hard time training their athletes to be as skilled and disciplined as the Chinese at such an young age. Take a look at how many gold medals the Chinese have won before the age cap limit was set, and that pretty much says it all. People are jealous to the fact the Chinese can produce so many talented athletes who are capable of getting Gold medals.
    Take a look at a different point, why do we let/allow young prodigies who are so smart, skip grades to attend University and get a degree? Don’t you think they should come of age before they can go to University?

    For those of you who are so set to “judge”…. How well do you know what at 16 year old really looks like these days? Heck, I’ve seen some 16 year olds look like they’re 40…. or a 16 yr old look like barely 9-10 years old. Asian people don’t often get puberty early specially those that live in China, Korea, Japan, and so are the majority of those people living on the Asian side.
    You know why the other athletes look more mature? Take a look at all the chemically/hormonally pumped and processed foods with vitamins and etc. avail in the market, specially to the Americans… you don’t think that affects the human body development? *Get Real*…..

    Stop forcing American standard and ideas into to another country. Regardless if it’s Nastia to Shawn J, or He Kexin… These athletes have worked for years to refine their sport. If the gold medal is won by DQ another athlete due to public accusations and pressure, then you’re totally missing the point of the Olympics.

    The Olympics is meant to compete the best of the best athletes and see who comes out on top regardless of age, race, or ethnicity.

    Travel a little more and learn from the different cultures people. Stop living in a shoe box and see with tunnel vision mentality.

  306. PETE says:

    the reason that chinese girls wins at those young ages is because they are drafted into special olympic programs since they were 4, they even get specialized schools that have training as the 1st priority.

    those girls that do gymnastics have stunted growth. look at the rosters for all the countries and you’ll find 90% of them under 5ft and 100lb.

    also, by training as hard as they do, maintaining a very low body fat %, it is possible to delay and stop puberty altogether. (you see this is highly trained circus girls too). thus making them under developed. you can’t really these people by your eyes. The mens team too is very very short (5 feet)

    btw when china beat nastia, it was from the FIG rule book, nothing that either side could of done would of changed that.

    from my personal opinion, i can not see any advantage of been underage,
    sure you have good flexibility, but most gymnasts maintain those with rigorous training anyways.
    Also, since when is a 13 year old stronger then a 16 year old? try to do some of those things that they do and you’ll see how much strength it takes.

    o yea, please take a look at the Japaneses team while you guys are at it, maybe it will give some better perspective (especially TSURUMI Koko 4′7″ 75lb, thats shorter and lighter then the chinese)

  307. olympic_fan_08 says:

    I don’t want to add any comments on the age of the Chinese gymnasts – there’ll be an investigation and that will decide on the issue. But I did want to add two things. Why is the cut off age for gymnasts 16, while that for divers is younger; most folks in the UK are hailing 14 year old diver Tom Daley as a star – his young age is always mentioned. Surely his body is also developing, and surely he also has all those other height/weight advantages that others talk about? Yes, his sport might be seen as ‘in the air’ and therefore not as jarring to his body – but I imagine the training and the stress factors are pretty similar. Another point – as an 18 yr old in the 80s I sat next to the Russian gymnasts on an aeroflot plane at the time of similar age controversy. They were doing their homework and I noticed they were doing the same advanced calculus and advanced physics that had just used for my A levels, although they looked around 10 yrs old!! So either they were hyper brainy too, or they just looked young for their age.

  308. Just a thought says:

    When American girl is sixteen, they look like twenty.
    When American girl is twenty, they look like thirty.
    When Americal girl is thirty, they look like forty.

    American girl in general looks older (more mature) than man.

    Guys, make sure marry a girl 10 years younger than you.

  309. Be open mind says:

    Everyone is innocent until proven guilty.

  310. Poor Mike Phelps says:

    Mike just won 8 medals and broke many world records in swimming competition which never happen before.

    Did Mike cheat ?

    Did Mike take supper enhanced drug not detected ?

    Be fair and respectful.

    There will be no war if everyone (country, religion, individual) respect each other.

    .

  311. rulesrrules says:

    If the young girls are not of the accepted age, they should be stripped of their medals. You better believe, if China felt that the USA or anyone else, had an unfair advantage due to rule violation, they would not tolerate it. Irregardless of the medals won, it is not fair to any other athlete that trained hard and waited until they were elligible according to the rules set forth. It has nothing to do with Americans whining or being racist, although some comments on here have been. You can’t judge all by a few whackos, just as I have no harsh thoughts about the girls put in that situation. If the Chinese government produced fake documents, they should be banned from competition as well as medals stripped. Just my opinion.

  312. Get Reasonable- Be Fair says:

    Many Asian girls look younger than they actually are because they are usually shorter. And yes, maybe China ha gone a little too far here, but remember that you should look on both sides of the argument and not just on the one side!

    Oh, by the way, I don’t live in America, I live in Australia, and my school is talking about “the USAs are sooo dumb! Just because they think that they are the best at everything and that they should always be first doesn’t mean that they could go around sending hate mails and complaining about how that ugly Nastia (it sounds like Nasty!) girl got unfair scores in the stupid gym comp when she got the fairest scores of all! Stupid woman!” Well I stood up to you and told them to get reasonable, well you should do the same!

    And if you were sending hate mails to the Aussies, YOU should get reasonable and be fair yourself!!

  313. Get Reasonable- Be Fair says:

    Many Asian girls look younger than they actually are because they are usually shorter. And yes, maybe China ha gone a little too far here, but remember that you should look on both sides of the argument and not just on the one side!

  314. Free Tibet says:

    FREE TIBET!

    ONE WORLD ONE DREAM FREE TIBET!!!!

  315. Karen says:

    I read a comment below that stated, “Of course Americans don’t cheat..just look at Marion Jones.”
    Obviously this was meant to point out cheating can take place by anyone or any country.
    You know the difference is that Americans “call them out”, Marion Jones was forced to fess up to something she and her coach were aware of, the cheating wasn’t covered up by our government or any officials involved with the Olympics.
    We search for cheaters and no matter how many years it takes or what has to be done to prove it, Well Americans are gonna bring that cheater right on out. AND we are all gonna be disappointed to hear that our Olympic hero or anyone we admire has cheated.
    Yep, we may not catch ‘em all, but by God we’ll try. Don’t know any fellow American that I have ever came across that likes a cheater. We set goals and we enjoy watching Americans compete, but it’s shameful to cheat and just disgusts most of us!!

    Chinese gymnists are competing and paperwork is filed that is clearly falsified, and these girls are heroes over there to millions and people from all over world are amazed by the talent of these girls who were supposed to be 16 to perform. It’s so sad to know that it’s not a decision by one or two people to cheat, NO it’s a team and many people who choose to use 14 yr. old girls in a 16 and over competetion, and tell these girls to play along. OH it makes me angry, those girls are winning awards for China and they know they are illegally performing. Wow, how sad to have adults using 14 yr. olds to be the best. Those girls would shine at 16 and its shameful and sad to know they must lie and deny, and work for the gold….illegally but hey it’s a medal!

  316. hulk hogan says:

    update:

    chinese medals stripped.

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